Key’s last fig leaf

32 comments on “Key’s last fig leaf ”

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1. Tracey 1

   18 September 2014 at 7:49 am

   Thanks for your efforts on pulling some strands together. Much appreciated.

   Even though key wont declassify the info to tell the people who were illegally spied on who they were, we ought to be able to get an idea of what “group” or “type” they were so we can work out the sorts of kiiws who might be surveilled.

   Unlike some suppoprters of the Right, I don’t believe that our spy agencies are always truthful about what they do, and I don’t trust that they would divulge everything to their watchdog.
2. mickysavage 2

   18 September 2014 at 7:57 am

   Strange how Karma works sometimes. National has tried to run a detail free campaign and has tried to trip up Labour because its policies are detail heavy.

   And Key shows that, at best, he has no grasp of important detail concerning a very important area of government activity.
   • vto 2.1

     18 September 2014 at 8:16 am

     He is a snake oil salesman and they don’t care about detail.

     That Campbell live interview shows Key lying lying lying. Key has become completely and utterly transparent as to his dishonesty
   • aj 2.2

     18 September 2014 at 8:44 am

     …. he has no grasp of important detail ….

     he has no grasp of important detail when it suits him …

     FIFY
3. Tracey 3

   18 September 2014 at 8:05 am

   Little game for everyone. To follow is a statement from John Armstrong, political writer and political editor for our major daily newspaper. Please state what, if anything, might be ironic about the statement

   “But he should have skewered Key on the latter’s changing story on the GCSB and mass surveillance.”
4. BLiP 4

   18 September 2014 at 8:09 am

   ‘

   John Key has been lying from start to finish about the GCSB and related matters. I’ve struggled to keep up with all his statements so, no doubt, have missed a few but his current list of lies about this matter includes . . .

   Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job

   I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher

   I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position

   I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher

   I haven’t seen Ian Fletcher in a long time.

   I did not mislead the House (13)

   I have no reason to doubt at this stage that Peter Dunne did not leak the GCSB report

   I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher’s number

   the new legislation narrows the scope of the GCSB

   the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions

   because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law ammendments, parliamentary urgency is required

   the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can’t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect prive enterprise

   it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police

   National Ltd™ is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law

   cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers

   the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear

   it totally incorrect that the Government effectively through GCSB will be able to wholesale spy on New Zealanders

   we self identified that there was a problem with the GCSB spying on Kim Dotcom

   the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident

   The advice I have had in 4 years as a Minister is that in no way ever has there been an indication of unlawful spying

   the Ministerial Warrant signed by Bill English did not cover anything up

   I wasn’t briefed about the raid on Kim Dotcom’s home.

   first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012

   first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in 17 September

   I did not mislead the House (14)

   I won’t be discussing Kim Dotcom during my Hollywood visit.

   The Human Rights Commission couldn’t get its submission on the GCSB legislation in on time.

   it would cost too much to for the police and SIS to carry out the spying on New Zealanders that this new legislation will permit

   critics of the GCSB legislation, including the Law Society, the Human Rights Commission, and the Privacy Commission, are all uninformed

   no, I did not mislead the House (15)

   I do not know how Mr Henry is conducting the Enquiry

   no, I did not mislead the House (16)

   the Henry Enquiry had permission to view Ministers’ emails

   no, I did not mislead the House (??)

   we do not spy on journalists

   the passing of phone records to the Henry Enquiry was an error on the part of a contractor

   I wasn’t aware that my own Chief of Staff was instructing Parliamentary Services to hand over information concerning journalist Andrea Vance

   National Ltd™ has never tried to impinge on the role of the media

   I had nothing to do with information on a journalist being handed over to the inquiry into the leaking of the GCSB report

   the terms of the enquiry made it clear to everyone that it was only the phone records of parliamentary staff and ministers that were to be provided

   I have the utmost respect for the media and the role it plays in New Zealand’s democracy

   the Henry Enquiry did not access a journalist’s building-access records

   the Henry Enquiry did not ask for phone and email records

   no, I did not mislead the House (17)

   the Greens are opposed to the GCSB and the SIS even existing

   the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because there are al-Qaeda terrorists in New Zealand

   John Minto is in the Green Party

   the GCSB needs to spy on New Zealanders because of the terrorist threat, even though official reports released over my signature say there is no risk and the SIS has the matter in hand

   the GCSB Bill does not give the GCSB the power to look at the content of communications as part of its cyber-security functions

   no, I did not mislead the House (18)

   the GCSB is not sharing meta-data with the NSA

   Edward Snowden hacked into the NSA data base to obtain the documents which show details of the GCSB setting up a mass surveillance system

   I will release documents which show that an operation to provide mass surveillance data only ever made it to the business plan stage.

   There’s no ambiguity. No middle ground. I’m right and Glenn Greenwald is wrong,

   Kim Dotcom is paying Glenn Greenwald to come to New Zealand

   . . . any additions, corrections, and/or challenges are welcome.
   • Tracey 4.1

     18 September 2014 at 9:05 am

     I will release documents which show that an operation to provide mass surveillance data only ever made it to the business plan stage.

     He said he canned the mass surveillance programme in March 2013
     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11324936

     BUT the documents released show he canned “Option 2” in September 2013.
     https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1301566/cabinet-minutes-25-9.pdf
   • seeker 4.2

     18 September 2014 at 10:28 pm

     Addition to BLiP’s list:

     As it happened in full ‘technicolor’ as they once said – video evidence of john key’s mo of untruthfulness:

     PM John Key grilled on Fletcher’s GCSB appointment
     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics-videos/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503464&gal_cid=1503464&gallery_id=131968

     Key says Rennie put forward Fletcher’s name @ 40 secs but changes his story @1.46 in, and Very Unusually was actually queried on it by a journalist @ 1.55mins. and repeats truth or lie @2.05mins. Only video I’ve seen and still able to access that shows him lying.
5. philj 5

   18 September 2014 at 8:55 am

   But does he know he’s lying? I knew contacts who worked with JK in the money markets in London. They said JK had an exceptional memory, forgetting nothing. Go figure…. How frequent are the flights to Hawai’i?
6. Sans Cle 6

   18 September 2014 at 10:09 am

   Slightly off topic, given impending election, but the whole focus on GCSB, Five Eyes, role of NZ internationally with our metadata has got me thinking about our own telcos who are collecting data on us.
   The debate about what they do with that data, how it is used for commercial purposes, sold for insight into consumer behaviour and ultimately for more advertising and marketing here in NZ is something also to consider.
   It is our choice to have phones, mobile devices and basically 24/7 trackers to feed into this metadata, but I haven’t seen much debate about how that data is used, who has access to it, or how much it costs to buy that data (as I presume it is for sale).
   • Peter 6.1

     18 September 2014 at 11:00 am

     … you may add, what choice do we have to stop them collecting the data? If they are making money from it should we not be reimbursed?
     • AsleepWhileWalking 6.1.1

       18 September 2014 at 11:44 am

       Good point Peter. This is commercially valuable information and we should have the right and ability to have it destroyed or collection stopped if our government so chooses.
7. David 7

   18 September 2014 at 11:42 am

   Let’s not play with semantics. If all of our data is collected and I believe it is being collected then does it matter who is doing it?
   When these agencies use algorithms to identify any communication of interest to them does this then mean we are only now being surveilled?
   Of course not, we were already being surveilled for that data to be present. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear? This presumes you know what they are looking for, does it not, today’s laws can change (under urgency) tomorrow. Does key know all of this, maybe, maybe not; he is simply the enabler, a traitor in my view.
   The first requirement of effecting any change is to first accept the situation. We are all being monitored, so why? I have and wrote a number of articles on this at the time of the law changes and clearly stated that I believe the GSCB and other agencies are not to protect people but to protect the State FROM the people. What State though? Because this presumes that the various partner States have control over these agencies. An example, lets travel back a few years and consider myself and a number of other people still capable of independent thought trying to organise the demise of Hitler, in the greater good of course, would that State having these agencies capabilities use them to thwart that attempt? As Mr Key would say I leave you to draw your own conclusions. We know he would.
   Below is a link to 10 x approx 1.5 hr video seminars that I believe are not only intriguing, disturbing and surprising they also answer many questions historically and in present day of the overall picture. If you don’t believe in religion and blame it for almost all our wars you would be wrong, it’s the cause of ALL of our wars and you then really need to watch, I found it well worth the time investment. Maybe watch number 3 and 4 and if that piques your interest then watch them all, what follows is the shortened version.

   http://walterveith.com/walter-veith-total-onslaught-mini-series.html
8. Tom Gould 8

   18 September 2014 at 11:53 am

   If the Tories are re-elected then Key will just say it’s not in the ‘public interest’ to go into all this security ‘hanky-panky’ and that will be the end of it. We will be expected to trust him to protect us all, and most people will. The same old ‘threat response’ trick that got Bush a second term.
   • Cleangreen 8.1

     18 September 2014 at 5:54 pm

     Yeah but this is worse we have a Nixon and the third term run by a corrupt Government that have proven they lie and call it just business.’ USA had real MSM when Nixon n tried to wiggle out but we have a corporate bought corrupt MSM that is working against the people as Germany had when Goebbels took over the media and brainwashed the people as Key is doing here.

     We are far worse of than US citizens were then.

     Without a free press in NZ we are screwed.
9. rich the other 9

   18 September 2014 at 12:05 pm

   Great timing across the Tasman this morning .
   Massive anti terror raids this morning in Sydney , a wake up call who doubt the need for spy agencies.
   • tricledrown 9.1

     18 September 2014 at 12:17 pm

     No doubt a 5 eyes operation timed to scare New Zealand voters
     • Cleangreen 9.1.1

       18 September 2014 at 6:30 pm

       First thing that came to my mind also Trickledrown.

       These five eyes are part of a global control one world Government planned by Bilderberg Group, the worlds most secretive black ops organisation on the planet masterminded by Nazi party member Prince Bertrand of Holland.

       Deception is the rule and global weakening of Governments is Bilderberg’s plan so they can take control so not surprised at all here.

       They are also behind the present expansion of NATO to take control of all neibouring bloc countries bordering on EU.

       Its the new Industrial Corporate global expansion plans and Key is a pawn in Bilderberg’s expansion plans, we believe.

       John Key has been to Bilderberg meetings in Europe in 2011-12.
       http://twochurchesonly.com/supmat/03/most_influential/bilderberg_group/list_of_bilderberg_attendees.pdf
   • adam 9.2

     18 September 2014 at 2:15 pm

     So why are you willing to promote thugs and criminals to the level of terrorist rich the other? Why are you happy to have what should be a police/investigative issue dealt with by the military? Why are you happy to let fear rule your life?

     Because at the end of the day – there will always be thugs and criminals who will want nothing more than, to be treated as the big shots they think they are. That it is too convenient to use said thugs and criminals to help push totalitarian agenda. So rich the other you think our police and indeed the police across the globe are incapable to do proper investigations and catch thugs and criminals – well sorry for you.
   • politikiwi 9.3

     18 September 2014 at 7:17 pm

     You know what injures more people that terrorism?

     Stairs.

     Perhaps we need a war on stairs?

     Replacing all stairs with elevators would be a much better “return on investment” than the war on terror in terms of injuries prevented.

     It’s time for evidence based policy!
     It’s time for a war on stairs!!
10. Sable 10

    18 September 2014 at 12:26 pm

    One way or the other I think Keys is done. Even of he gets reelected I suspect he will receive a Kevin Rudd style reception from his “colleagues”.
11. freedom 11

    18 September 2014 at 1:26 pm

    Questions begin to pile up pretty quickly
    http://imgur.com/a/4C8zX
12. cogito 12

    18 September 2014 at 2:48 pm

    Interestingly, Ian Fletcher has kept very quiet re all the recent GCSB/NSA claims… Trying to put some distance between himself and Key, maybe…?
13. jane 13

    18 September 2014 at 3:24 pm

    Still I would rather have the Government watching than terrorists operating in our country.
    • tricledrown 13.1

      18 September 2014 at 6:04 pm

      so while they should be looking for terrorists they are manipulating democracy instead
      • Cleangreen 13.1.1

        18 September 2014 at 6:45 pm

        Trickledrown,

        Isn’t it strange how some will rush to give away our freedom liberty and democracy that our hero’s fought & died for us to live for and now some want to throw this all away cause some one upsets the applecart every now and then eh?
    • Anne 13.2

      18 September 2014 at 6:46 pm

      Well jane you have a Labour government and Helen Clark to thank for the fact that NZ is currently terrorist-free. Had we been governed by a National led government no doubt NZ would have been in Iraq and Afghanistan on an official war footing. As it happened Helen Clark would only supply personnel for reconstruction work and peace keeping operations. Otherwise we would be facing down terrorist activity too. Mind you with the war mongering mob currently in power in NZ, I grant you it may not last much longer.

      Have a think about that jane. That is, if you are capable of independent thinking.
    • Lloyd 13.3

      18 September 2014 at 9:02 pm

      please explain how five eyes didn’t warn us of our only terrorist attack in the last century.
14. cogito 14

    18 September 2014 at 4:18 pm

    From The Intercept….

    Irate NSA Staffer Doesn’t Like Being Filmed in Public, for Some Reason
    https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/09/17/irate-nsa-staffer-doesnt-like-filmed-public-reason/
15. les 15

    18 September 2014 at 9:01 pm

    its not about the left or the right anymore its
    about the multinationals they control most of the worlds wealth they are
    breaking down country’s borders, laws spying its not about finding
    terrorists (it took over ten years for the yanks to find Osama bin Laden
    sitting in a house in Pakistan ) its about controlling country’s taking over their resources amalgamating there businesses all under central control, do you not wonder why we have sold our country assets over the last 20 years by party’s from both sides off the fence changed the face of our social community divided its peoples all without the permission of the people, in the final stages you have to control the people or they will want it back
    • seeker 15.1

      18 September 2014 at 10:46 pm

      I think you are quite correct les, unfortunately.
16. A VOTER 16

    19 September 2014 at 10:29 pm

    Anyone with the slightest idea of how to have control of the worlds security would know that everything Key has said is a red herring and of course we are in it up to the White House
    The problem is have we got anything that we can do to get ourselves out of having our country ruled by a covert security corporation now that we are on the verge of signing our sovereignty over to them (TPPA)
    And this govt craps on about the evils of socialism when they are the biggest sellout fascist since uno who
    Key should be indicted for treason
    We have the right to say NO you’d think but this situation has gone on since 1940 and we just follow like sheep in order to ”progress ”

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