Labour accelerates action on Pike River re-entry
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8:31 am, November 21st, 2017 - 182 comments
Categories: Amy Adams, Andrew Little, health and safety, jacinda ardern, labour, making shit up, Mining, national, same old national, spin, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, Unions, workers' rights, you couldn't make this shit up -
Tags: #standwithpike, pike river, Remembering the Pike River miners
Andrew Little has been performing some outstanding work in his new minister’s role. He has already made some significant decisions, decided that justice for Teina Pora required an increase payment, and has met with Ngāpuhi in an effort to get its treaty claim back on track.
And he has sped up Government action in trying to find out what happened at Pike River.
From Radio New Zealand:
A new stand-alone government agency will be established in January, to start planning for a manned re-entry into the drift of the Pike River Mine.
The department – which will have budget of up to $23 million over three years – has been announced this afternoon by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Andrew Little, the minister responsible for the issue.
The Pike River Recovery Agency – Te Kahui Whakamana Rua Tekau ma Iwa – would be tasked with coming up with a plan to have the re-entry completed by March 2019.
Yesterday marked the seventh anniversary of the Pike River Mine disaster, in which 29 people were killed.
Ms Ardern said the agency would be working with the families of the 29 miners killed in the 2010 explosions on decisions about re-entering the mine.
“We’re giving them the committment we’re doing everything within our power to try, and that’s all they’ve ever asked from us,” she said.
The re-entry plan would involve going in to a previously unexplored 400 metre section of the drift.
The purpose of that would be to gather evidence to help put together a better picture of what happened at the mine in the lead-up to the explosions and in the aftermath, to prevent a repeat.
Little has taken an active approach to the issue since day one when he was head of what is now Etu Union.
National is criticising him for now not promising a manned entry of the mine no matter what and for not continuing its plan for a robot entry of the mine. But such criticism is ludicrous.
Again from Radio New Zealand:
Mr Little said the final decision about whether the re-entry would go ahead would rest with him.
He said the normal risk and hazard assessments would take place and his decision would be based on advice from the agency – which would be peer reviewed – as well as an independent advisor.
Ms Ardern said the government did not believe at this stage that any changes to health and safety legislation needed to be made to execute the re-entry.
Meanwhile, Ms Ardern has also scrapped current plans to send in a robot into the mine, which was due to be sent in by Christmas.
“Our view was that the evidence that sat behind that exercise doesn’t stack up and we should focus our efforts, energy and resources into a manned entry.”
This was not a surprising move, as Mr Little said earlier this month the plan, directed by the previous National-led goverment and Solid Energy, was an unfair “experiment ” on the families.
National is trying to say that Labour has now adopted National’s position and there is no difference. From Stuff:
National workplace relations spokeswoman Amy Adams said the government had “wound back” its promises, from both prior to the election and in recent weeks.
“This approach closely reflects the view of the previous government – that safety is paramount.”
The Government recognised it could not waive health and safety laws, rush or force a re-entry, Adams said.
“The National Party continues to support re-entry, if it can be safely achieved and I would encourage the Government to listen to the experts.”
But the Pike River families is having none of this criticism. The big differences are that instead of being excluded the families will have a significant part in the decision making process and at least now proactive action is being taken. Again from Stuff:
Pike River family spokesman Bernie Monk, who lost his son Michael in the disaster, said the families could not ask for more than what the new government had done.
“After seven years of stalling and of being fobbed off by the last government, we’re now making great strides towards re-entering the drift and recovering remains and evidence,” he said.
“This is really important to us, but it is also important to all of New Zealand, we should not be a country where a crime-scene goes unexamined for seven years.”
While other family members were excited by Monday’s announcement, Monk said it was bitter sweet – this progress could have been made a long time ago.
“There will be no celebration here until the job is done,” he said.
Anna Osborne, whose husband Milton died in the mine, has said the families didn’t take this lightly.
“We’ve all lost loved ones so we know what that feels like to lose a loved one in a workplace accident. So we don’t want anyone to risk their lives going into a mine to retrieve our loved ones’ remains.”
But expert advice to date said a manned entry was possible.
Osborne said the involvement of family members in the creation of the agency showed the job would be done properly.
“This is a transparent and inclusive process and we’ve made it clear that safety comes first.”
Sonya Rockhouse, who lost her son Ben in the mine, said it really felt like they’d hit the ground running.
I am not surprised that National is trying to spin this. What has happened is a travesty. As a minimum there should have been a proper investigation of what happened and a real prosecution should have happened. As a country we owe it to the Pike River families to find out what really happened.
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- Another ‘Stolen Generation’ enabled by court ruling on Waitangi Tribunal summonsTonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...1 week ago
- Release: Budget blunder shows Nicola Willis could cut recovery fundingIt appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...1 week ago
- Further environmental mismanagement on the cardsThe Government’s resource management reforms will add to the heavy and ever-growing burden this Government is loading on to our environment. ...1 week ago
- Release: RMA changes will be a disaster for environmentThe Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...1 week ago
- Release: Labour supports urgent changes to emergency management systemLabour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...1 week ago
- Release: Labour calls for New Zealand to recognise PalestineThe Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...1 week ago
- Release: Three strikes law political posturing of worst kindThe Government is bringing back a law that has little evidential backing just to look tough, Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...1 week ago
- Release: Government cuts unbelievably target child exploitation, violent extremism, ports and airpor...Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...1 week ago
- Three strikes has failed before and will fail againResurrecting the archaic three-strikes legislation is an unwelcome return to a failed American-style approach to justice. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Environmental protection vital, not ‘onerous’The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...2 weeks ago
- Ferris – Three Strikes targets those ‘too brown to be white’The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Govt cuts doctors and nurses in hiring freezeCuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...2 weeks ago
- Fast-track submissions period must be extendedThe Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Progress on climate will be undone by GovtNew Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Dark day for Kiwi kids as a third of Govt cuts affect themNews that 1000 jobs at the Ministry of Education and Oranga Tamariki could go is devastating for future generations of New Zealanders. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Alarm as Government signals further blow to school lunchesMore essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...2 weeks ago
- Oranga Tamariki cuts commit tamariki to state abuseTe Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Quick, submit – stop Govt’s dodgy approvals billThe Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...2 weeks ago
- Government throws coal on the climate crisis fireThe Government’s policy announced today to ease consenting for coal mining will have a lasting impact across generations. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Public transport costs to double as National looks at unaffordable roading project insteadCancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Cost of living in Auckland still not a priorityA laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...3 weeks ago
- Te Pāti Māori to visit Queensland to strengthen ties with Māori in AustraliaTe Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...3 weeks ago
- Modern insurance law will protect Kiwi households
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...9 hours ago - Government recommits to equal payThe coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...12 hours ago
- Transforming how our children learn to readStructured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...13 hours ago
- NZ not backing down in Canada dairy disputeTrade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...16 hours ago
- Stronger oversight for our most vulnerable childrenThe rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...17 hours ago
- Streamlining Building Consent ChangesThe Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...22 hours ago
- Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...1 day ago
- Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...1 day ago
- Accelerating airport security linesFrom today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...2 days ago
- Community hui to talk about kina barrensPeople with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...2 days ago
- Kiwi exporters win as NZ-EU FTA enters into forceKiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...2 days ago
- Mining resurgence a welcome signThere are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...2 days ago
- Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill passes first readingThe return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...2 days ago
- Government to boost public EV charging networkEnergy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...2 days ago
- Residential Property Managers Bill to not progressThe coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...2 days ago
- Independent review into disability support servicesThe Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...3 days ago
- Justice Minister updates UN on law & order planJustice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...3 days ago
- Ending emergency housing motels in RotoruaThe Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...3 days ago
- Trade Minister travels to Riyadh, OECD, and DubaiTrade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...3 days ago
- Education priorities focused on lifting achievementEducation Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...3 days ago
- NZTA App first step towards digital driver licenceThe new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...3 days ago
- Supporting whānau out of emergency housingWhānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...3 days ago
- Tribute to Dave O'SullivanRacing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...4 days ago
- Speech – Eid al-FitrAssalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...4 days ago
- Government saves access to medicinesAssociate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...4 days ago
- Pharmac Chair appointedHon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...5 days ago
- Taking action on Fetal Alcohol Spectrum DisorderHundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...6 days ago
- New sports complex opens in KaikoheRegional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...6 days ago
- Diplomacy needed more than everForeign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...6 days ago
- Anzac Commemorative Address, Buttes New British Cemetery BelgiumAmbassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...7 days ago
- Anzac Commemorative Address – NZ National Service, Chunuk BairDistinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...1 week ago
- Anzac Commemorative Address – Dawn Service, Gallipoli, TürkiyeMai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...1 week ago
- PM announces changes to portfoliosPaul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...1 week ago
- New catch limits for unique fishery areasRecreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...1 week ago
- Minister welcomes hydrogen milestoneEnergy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...1 week ago
- Urgent changes to system through first RMA Amendment BillThe coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...1 week ago
- Overseas decommissioning models consideredOverseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...1 week ago
- Release of North Island Severe Weather Event InquiryEmergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...1 week ago
- Justice Minister to attend Human Rights CouncilJustice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...1 week ago
- Patterson reopens world’s largest wool scouring facilityAssociate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...2 weeks ago
- OPM’s Bomanak accuses UN of failing to uphold decolonisation role over West Papua
Asia Pacific Report A West Papuan resistance leader has condemned the United Nations role in allowing Indonesia to “integrate” the Melanesian Pacific region in what is claimed to be an “egregious act of inhumanity” on 1 May 1963. In an open letter to UN Secretary-General António Guterres, Organisasi Papua Merdeka-OPM ...3 hours ago - Grattan on Friday: O’Neil and Giles dodge the spotlight shining on blunders over ex-detaineesSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra A key part of the Albanese government’s political strategy is to fill the news cycle with its presence and messaging. Ministers are deployed to the maximum, even when they’ve little to say. This week ...4 hours ago
- Bob Carr confirms intention to launch legal action against Winston Peters
Carr has confirmed his lawyers have written to Peters, informing him they intend to launch legal action against him. ...5 hours ago - A lot to learn from kura kaupapa Māori – Education MinisterDespite low literacy rates in mainstream schools amongst Māori, the results are the complete opposite in kura kaupapa, Stanford says. ...5 hours ago
- Julie Anne Genter: Greens had 'no prior knowledge' of fresh complaint against MPA florist says she felt intimidated during a heated exchange with the MP. ...7 hours ago
- Insurance law overhaul passes first readingRecent extreme weather events showed the importance of a well-functioning insurance system, says Commerce and Consumer Affairs minister Andrew Bayly. ...7 hours ago
- NZ Foreign Minister Peters accused of ‘entirely defamatory’ remarks about ex-Australian ministerBy Jo Moir, RNZ News political editor, and Craig McCulloch, deputy political editor New Zealand’s Labour Party is demanding Winston Peters be stood down as Foreign Minister for opening up the government to legal action over his “totally unacceptable” attack on a prominent AUKUS critic. In an interview on RNZ’s ...7 hours ago
- How much time should you spend sitting versus standing? New research reveals the perfect mix for opt...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christian Brakenridge, Postdoctoral research fellow at Swinburne University, Centre for Urban Transitions, Baker Heart and Diabetes Institute The Conversation, Gorodenkoff/Shutterstock People have a pretty intuitive sense of what is healthy – standing is better than sitting, exercise is great for overall ...7 hours ago
- Into The Deep End – Karori Lifeguard Up For Challenge As Reserve Force Soldier
The Wellington-based Reserve Force soldier is now almost three years into his New Zealand Army career with 5th/7th Battalion, Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment. ...8 hours ago - Brazilian couple's residency case taken up by minister after advisor forgets to apply for visaAfter multiple pleas and petition, an Auckland couple's residency case is being looked at by the Associate Minister of Immigration. ...8 hours ago
- Fast Track Approvals Bill: None from first day of hearings support bill in current formNone of the groups that spoke to Parliament's environment committee on Thursday supported the bill as it stands. ...8 hours ago
- Australia will trial ‘age assurance’ tech to bar children from online porn. What is it and will ...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Haskell-Dowland, Professor of Cyber Security Practice, Edith Cowan University Daniel Jedzura/Shutterstock Responding to a resurgence in gender-based violence and deaths in Australia, the National Cabinet has committed almost A$1 billion to a range of strategies. Tackling “online harms” was among the ...9 hours ago
- Government Cuts Put 130 Jobs On The Line At Kāinga Ora, And 40 At HUD"The Government needs to release the review immediately as this reckless approach to change risks disjointed decision making and creates more distress and uncertainty for staff," Fitzsimons said. ...9 hours ago
- Jeremiah Manele is new Solomon Islands PM with ‘100 day plan’By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Jeremiah Manele has been elected Prime Minister of Solomon Islands, polling 31 votes to 18 over rival candidate and former opposition leader Mathew Wale with one abstention. The final result of the election by secret ballot was announced by the Governor-General, Sir David Vunagi, ...9 hours ago
- Will Solomon Islands’ new leader stay close to China?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Priestley Habru, PhD candidate, public diplomacy, University of Adelaide Former foreign minister Jeremiah Manele has been elected the next prime minister of Solomon Islands, defeating the opposition leader, Matthew Wale, in a vote in parliament. The result is a mixed bag for ...10 hours ago
- A clock in the rocks: what cosmic rays tell us about Earth’s changing surface and climateSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shaun Eaves, Senior Lecturer in Physical Geography, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington Jamey Stutz, CC BY-SA How often do mountains collapse, volcanoes erupt or ice sheets melt? For Earth scientists, these are important questions as we try ...12 hours ago
- Watch: PM's pre-Budget education announcement for teaching readingFrom next year, the government expects all public schools to take a "proven structured literacy approach". ...12 hours ago
- Multiple parties complain over Green MP Julie Anne Genter's conductSpeaker Gerry Brownlee won't say which parties have taken issue with Julie Anne Genter's outburst. ...12 hours ago
- Aggressive? Homophobic? Stoic? Here’s what thousands of Australian men told us about modern mascul...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Flood, Professor of Sociology, Queensland University of Technology Shutterstock Most young adult men in Australia reject traditional ideas of masculinity that endorse aggression, stoicism and homophobia. Nonetheless, the ongoing influence of those ideas continues to harm men and the people ...13 hours ago
- Watch live as the PM makes pre-Budget education announcementFrom next year, the government expects all public schools to take a "proven structured literacy approach". ...13 hours ago
- NZQA Jobs To Go As Government Education Cuts Roll OnThe NZQA proposal released to staff today would involve a net loss of 35 roles. There are 66 roles being disestablished with 13 of those currently vacant, and 31 new roles proposed, said Fleur Fitzsimons Public Service Association Te Pūkenga Here Tikanga ...13 hours ago
- The star-studded New Zealand movie you need to see as soon as possible
Alex Casey talks to Loren Taylor, the writer, director and star of new film The Moon is Upside Down, about assembling her dream ensemble cast, toilet paper pads and turning literal dreams into reality. There’s a moment in The Moon is Upside Down where frazzled anaesthetist Briar (Loren Taylor) gets ...13 hours ago - Ministry of Housing and Urban Development to cut 40 jobs, NZQA to cut 35The total number of job losses in the public services has now gone over 3500. ...13 hours ago
- You’ve been ‘volun-told’ to coach junior sport – here’s how to best handle the parents inv...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cassy Dittman, Senior Lecturer/Head of Course (Undergraduate Psychology), Research Fellow, Manna Institute, CQUniversity Australia With winter sports swinging into action, adults around the country have volunteered or been volunteered by others (humorously known as being “volun-told”) to coach junior sports teams. ...14 hours ago
- Do we really need to burp babies? Here’s what the research saysSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Karleen Gribble, Adjunct Associate Professor, School of Nursing and Midwifery, Western Sydney University richardernestyap/Shutterstock Parents are often advised to burp their babies after feeding them. Some people think burping after feeding is important to reduce or prevent discomfort crying, or to ...14 hours ago
- ASB Workers To Strike As Bank Proposes An Effective Pay CutWorkers at a major ASB contact centre in Auckland have voted to take strike action and withdraw their labour following disappointing pay negotiations with the employer and an "offer" to workers that would leave them worse off than the previous year. ...15 hours ago
- Where else should phones be banned? The most unruly classroom of all – parliamentAs the government tries to get the country back on track with a school phone ban, Tara Ward has an idea for where they should turn their attention to next. New Zealand students returned to school on Monday morning, but their cellphones did not. The government’s new phone ban began ...15 hours ago
- Winston Peters accused of 'entirely defamatory' remarks about ex-Australian ministerThe Labour Party is demanding Peters be stood down, saying "he's embarrassed the country" with a "totally unacceptable" attack on a prominent AUKUS critic. ...16 hours ago
- Watch: Labour leader Chris Hipkins speaks to mediaThe opposition leader speaks to media during a visit with community advocate Dave Letele . ...16 hours ago
- Watch live: Labour leader Chris Hipkins speaks to mediaThe opposition leader speaks to media during a visit with community advocate Dave Letele . ...17 hours ago
- Public sector job cuts: All Stats NZ staff offered voluntary redundanciesThe PSA is concerned the cuts will hit the department's ability to deliver on its core functions. ...17 hours ago
- IPAC wants to see acknowledgement of all cyber breaches against public figuresThe Inter-Parliamentary Alliance, whose members were victims of a China-backed cyber attack, is discussing forming a standing committee to deal with foreign influence. ...17 hours ago
- Government’s Cuts Put Work Of Stats NZ At RiskThe PSA is concerned that the voluntary redundancies being offered to staff by Stats NZ will impact on the agency’s ability to deliver on its core functions. ...17 hours ago
- Is cooking with dog food instead of meat actually fine? I gave it a goResults ranged from surprisingly yum to soul-destroying. I love cooking. The kitchen is a hearth of culinary creation, of sensory delights, of gastronomic poetry. I also can’t afford anything nice. Why does a pack of instant noodles and some milk cost ten bucks? I love you, Aotearoa, but I miss ...17 hours ago
- Zero tolerance – Solomon Islands police on high alert ahead of PM electionBy Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Police in Solomon Islands are on high alert ahead of the election of the prime minister today. The two candidates for the top job are former foreign affairs minister Jeremiah Manele at the head of the Coalition for National Unity and Transformation, which is ...17 hours ago
- Fast-track Submitters Must Not Be Silenced Through Poor Select Committee Process“We’re concerned that if the Select Committee process is poorly run members of the public will be silenced on this deeply troubling Bill.” ...18 hours ago
- Number of businesses seeking help to downsize doubles as unemployment growsAn advocate says businesses are hurting and are reluctantly having to lay off workers. ...18 hours ago
- Help Me Hera: My friend’s boyfriend Steve is always, always, always aroundHe’s fine but it feels like I’m losing a friend and it’s making me bitter. How do I say ‘enough is enough’? Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nz Hey Hera, I’ve recently moved in with a girlfriend, her partner Steve, and his friend. We all live in a lovely little house. ...18 hours ago
- What junior doctors’ unpaid overtime tells us about the toxic side of medicineSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Claire Hooker, Senior Lecturer and Coordinator, Health and Medical Humanities, University of Sydney PeopleImages.com – Yuri A/Shutterstock What’s been described as the largest underpayment class action in Australian legal history has just been settled. Who was allegedly underpaid? Thousands of junior ...19 hours ago
- We think we control our health – but corporations selling forever chemicals, fossil fuels and ult...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nick Chartres, Senior Research Fellow, Faculty of Medicine & Health, University of Sydney shutterstock Ahmet Misirligul/Shutterstock You go to the gym, eat healthy and walk as much as possible. You wash your hands and get vaccinated. You control your health. This is ...19 hours ago
- Here’s how you can talk to your kids about gendered violence, and 7 ways to model good behaviourSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jacqueline Hendriks, Research Fellow and Lecturer, Curtin University Children and young people may be seeing news headlines about men murdering women or footage of people rallying to call for action. Perhaps they or their friends have even gone to the protests. ...19 hours ago
- Why are adults without kids hooked on Bluey? And should we still be calling it a ‘kids’ show’?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jessica Balanzategui, Senior Lecturer in Media, RMIT University ABC “Bluey mania” shows no sign of abating. Bluey’s season finale, The Sign, was the most viewed ABC program of all time on iView. A “hidden” follow-up episode, aptly named The Surprise, created ...19 hours ago
- Over $300K spent on slushy syrup and maintaining machines for prison staffCorrections has spent over $305,000 on slushy syrup and maintaining frozen ice machines in the past six years. ...20 hours ago
- Winston Peters still trying to find out what Aukus Pillar 2 is aboutThe Foreign Minister says he is continuing work started by the previous Labour government. ...20 hours ago
- Unemployment up, business confidence downLabour market figures came in softer than the Reserve Bank had forecast, but they won’t be enough to move the needle on interest rates, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Unemployment ...20 hours ago
- Luxon’s leadership test: what would it take to win back unimpressed NZ voters?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Suze Wilson, Senior Lecturer, School of Management, Massey University Christopher Luxon’s sacking of two struggling cabinet ministers last week was praised by pundits as a sign of decisive – even “brutal” and “ruthless” – leadership. But this week’s 1News-Verian poll suggests the ...20 hours ago
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That’s right. The families had to stop the concrete trucks themselves.
Tried to find the clip where a previous PM stated;
“The first thing is I’m here to give you absolute reassurance, we’re committed to getting the boys out, and nothing’s going to change that. So – when people try and tell you we’re not, they’re playing, I hate to say it, but they’re playing with your emotions.”
https://thestandard.org.nz/pike-river-new-video-footage-proves-key-made-the-promise-he-denies/
Seems to have been taken down….
Joe 90 come in please….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW5Kvum9Sx4 approx. 2:17 min in.
National are lying again as they claim Labour is following the same policy as they did.
NoNoNo. National never offered “proper consultation” with the west coast people.
We in HB/Gisborne under national were never offered “proper consultation” when National stole our rail funding for Auckland Commuter rail and caused the lack of rail mainainence to wash out a section of our rail in 2012.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1302/S00183/kiwirail-admits-lack-of-maintenance-led-to-wash-out.htm
Today in 2017 we are all still wating for labour/NZF/Green promises to restore our rail again.
We in HB/Gisborne and the West coast know this;
National party = profuse liars.
Time the punters were used rather than the pollys in explaining to the rest of NZ what pathological liars national are.
National used Pike River to redraft OHS laws allegedly under Talleys directives….lest we forget
Do you have ANY evidence AT ALL that the OHS laws were redrafted under Talleys directives?
Thats a hell of a claim – Im calling bullshit
I am with James on this. Are you being sarcastic? If not what do you base this on?
“… we should not be a country where a crime-scene goes unexamined for seven years.”
Thank you Bernie.
I can’t think of a better quote to highlight the seriousness of this issue. It is the canary in the coalmine of NZ’s compromised justice system/Demockary. Remember Erebus, Winebox, Arthur Allan Thomas, Tena Pora ECAN etc…
The national party, always looking for ways to shit on workers, even when they are dead.
National really are absolute pieces of shit to keep politicising this, and lying to boot.
I’ve also seen some left wing argument that Labour are reneging on their pre-election promises because they can’t guarantee entry. To me this is both playing into RW distortion narratives, and it’s holding Labour to account at a level that just isn’t possible for any government. Pre-Election the govt parties said they would go back into the mine. I find it hard to believe that anyone took that to mean re-entry would happen even if people were killed doing that.
So it looks like Labour are taking the right steps – moving quickly but with consideration for the best way to do this legislatively and with regard for safety. Afaik they still consider entry to be possibly based on the expert advice they’ve been given. I assume that because of the large budget, much of the planning here is not just on accessing the bodies, but investigating what happened.
The latter might be what National are concerned about, and if so we can expect the bullshit and obfuscation to jump some notches.
Weka
Is Winston Peters, to quote you, also an “absolute piece of shit”? He more than any other politician politicised Pike River in the run up to the election when he stated that he would lead a team into the drift because he had ‘evidence’ that it was safe to do so.
This was the most blatant and obscene example of politicising the Pike River tragedy that there has been so far.
I wonder if he still proposes to go into the mine? He remains silent on this issue.
Sure, Peters politicised an issue during an election campaign. But he didn’t then reverse his whole policy and position to garner votes or post election to try and undermine the govt.
Whatever criticisms I have about Peters (and I’m on record as having substantial ones), he’s not a liar nor has he deliberately undermined democracy by creating a culture of deception as normal politics. That National are now permanently on that path is no surprise but they still deserve to be called utter fuckeits over this particular issue. People died. Get a grip and some morals and some basic human decency.
What do you think of Adams deliberately misleading people about the difference between Labour and Nats stance on re entry?
Winston politicised the shit out of this already.
Fake policy made up by National now it’s no longer in government:
“The National Party continues to support re-entry, if it can be safely achieved and I would encourage the Government to listen to the experts.”
Actual policy of National when in government:
Nick Smith tells Pike River supporters: ‘We will seal mine’.
Only reason that policy failed:
Solid Energy’s attempts to seal the Pike River mine will be met with a literal road block after the owners of the mine’s access road gave the victim’s families legal control of the road.
National are lying fucks.
Yep!
Seems like National has been working behind the scenes doing all it can to obstruct the process through Solid Energy. Despite the Road Block, (and Richardson’s Group refusal to supply the concrete), it appears they have already dismantled most of the equipment on site which will impede, and delay progress.
Good interview on Morning Report detailing this, (with a very conciliatory Espiner)
“A re-entry into Pike River will be a step by step process an expert says. Tony Forster is a former chief mines inspector who’s been advising the Pike River victims’ families.”
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018622399/pike-re-entry-a-systematic-process-not-a-race
National are lying, and scheming Fucks!
And you found that info quickly… so why not a journo.
This piece is an heroic attempt to cover over Andrew Little’s involvement in Pike. Thankfully others have documented his incompetence.
http://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.co.nz/2017/10/andrew-little-and-pike-river-fatally.html
As for promises, well Labour and Little have been all over the place on this. On one hand Little said he would consider waiving health and safety laws to re-enter Pike (https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/98390520/andrew-little-govt-may-waive-health-and-safety-laws-for-pike-river-reentry?cid=edm:stuff:politicallycorrect&bid=455878407), now he’s saying Pike will be re-entered if it can be achieved safely, exactly the same position as National’s, and certainly not the position taken in the pre-election narrative or the Coalition Agreement.
The idea of a full investigation into what caused Pike is an excellent one, and something that should have been done by the previous Government. But please don’t mistake Little for anything other than an incompetent bungler.
…now he’s saying Pike will be re-entered if it can be achieved safely, exactly the same position as National’s…
Exactly the same as the fake position National is now claiming to have. For their actual position, see my comment 6.
It’s still the same position.
The word “same” isn’t really built to describe a policy of sealing the mine vs a policy of re-entering if it proves safe. I know that politicians are past masters of bullshit, but not even Key himself could square that circle.
National’s policy was re-entry if it was safe. They were advised it wasn’t. Now that is Labour’s policy too. It’s a pathetic back-down.
…Little said he would consider waiving health and safety laws to re-enter Pike…
Given that National was using those laws as a fig leaf for not re-entering the mine, that’s a well-duh. However, it’s not the same as promising to enter the mine even if it was likely to kill people – that’s just right-wing bullshit, as you well know.
The point is they have backtracked on that already.
Can you point to where Labour said they’d send people into Pike River even if it was likely to result in deaths? Because that’s what you’re claiming.
No, I’m not.
What I’m saying is that Labour’s pre-election position was unequivocal.
In the Coalition Agreement, their position was unequivocal. They would Commit to re-entry to Pike River. No conditions.
Then they said they might change the law (https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/98390520/andrew-little-govt-may-waive-health-and-safety-laws-for-pike-river-reentry?cid=edm:stuff:politicallycorrect&bid=455878407).
Then they said they wouldn’t.
Now they’re saying they will only go in if it’s safe. Which of course is the sensible position. Finally.
What I’m saying is that Labour’s pre-election position was unequivocal.
Exactly. You’re saying their position was that they’d send people into the mine even if proved fatal. Because if you’re not saying that, there is no back-tracking. Which is it?
“You’re saying their position was that they’d send people into the mine even if proved fatal.”
No, I’m not. I’m saying they gave no caveats. Which was stupid. And dishonest. And which is why John Armstrong got it right (https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/john-armstrong-pike-river-re-entry-never-going-happen)
You’re claiming we should assume the government has a policy of deliberately risking people’s lives unless it specifically declares that it won’t. That would make for some very long policy documents, but fortunately the rest of us are aware you’re bullshitting, not voicing a genuinely-held view.
“You’re claiming we should assume the government has a policy of deliberately risking people’s lives unless it specifically declares that it won’t. ”
No. I’m saying they should not have made promises they couldn’t possibly keep. And it isn’t only Labour.
Jeezus on a stick, they’re been in power for a month and already you’re accusing them of breaking an election promise? Babayaga (aka, 3stepstotheright/maninthemiddle, et al), you are wilfully creating a situation that not only does not exist – but has not had time to develop as a “broken promise!
It’s pretty clear that you’re a right-wing troll trying to spin a scenario that is a fantasy in your mind.
Jeezus, even Key had a longer “honeymoon” with the Left before he was revealed to be a duplicitous liar.
“they’re been in power for a month and already you’re accusing them of breaking an election promise? ”
Yes. It didn’t take them long, eh?
PS if you had been here a bit longer you would know my indifference to all politicians and political parties. I had some hope this government would be better than the last. Their position on Pike River and other matters appears they are not.
“It’s pretty clear that you’re a right-wing troll trying to spin a scenario that is a fantasy in your mind.”
So engage in a sensible debate. It’s easy to hit and run, much harder to actually try to put up a case.
The case against Little’s involvement and Labour’s grandstanding on this is clear. So refute it.
Oh now I see the light.
Poor bleating Baba3stepsinthemiddleyaga is concerned. A little cowering sponge, full of absorbed ACT dirty dishwater and terrified about the inevitable ascension of the detergent.
Why can’t we have some charity for the 0.5%? Some mercy, some compassion! Say it with cobblestones.
Thankfully others have documented his incompetence.
In this case, an old Trotskyite who considers Andrew Little’s incompetence to have been his willingness to try and work with employers rather than steadfastly and vigorously opposing them at every turn. Are you putting your hand up to agree that that constitutes “incompetence” for a union leader?
What constitutes incompetence is declaring the working conditions at Pike safe, when they patently weren’t,
careful, you’re sliding to the point of making shit up, there.
http://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.co.nz/2017/10/andrew-little-and-pike-river-fatally.html
“It was Andrew Little who, after the first explosion, claimed to the NZ Herald (November 22 2010) that there was “nothing unusual about Pike River or this mine that we’ve been particularly concerned about”.”
“It was a view he repeated to RNZ National’s Morning Report, also on November 22:
“Every mine on the West Coast takes great care when it goes into production and I don’t think Pike River is any different from that. They’ve had a good health and safety committee that’s been very active. So there’s nothing before now that’s alerted us to any greater risk of this sort of incident happening than at any other time.””
That’s not the same as declaring it safe. And “declaring the working conditions at Pike safe” a day or so after 29 people were lost in an explosion would be self-evidently stupid.
Saying the mine did not seem to be operating any differently to other mines, seemed to be active when it came to safety, and raised no serious concerns before the fucking huge explosion occurred is a reasonable statement to make, and raises the possibility of industry-wide failures.
Your failure to understand the english language seems to have coloured your perception of the situation – or vice versa.
“That’s not the same as declaring it safe. ”
Yes it is. Little was employed by the Union responsible for representing these men. He failed.
*yawn*
No it isn’t.
Is thinking your least-preferred option, or are you simply incapable of it?
It is the same McFlock. Or you’ll be able to post references to where Little declared the working conditions at the mine unsafe.
No. That would be evidence he said conditions were unsafe.
The comments you quoted someone else selectively editing were simply saying that Pike River was not out of the ordinary for mines in NZ, and had seemed to be actively managing its hazards.
If he had said the mine was safe, you’d have quotes saying things like “the mine is safe”. All you have is him saying he doesn’t think the mine was any different to any other mine on the west coast.
Now, that goes to union coverage and the shortcomings of mines inspection in general, but it’s not a declaration of safety. It’s a declaration of normality.
“All you have is him saying he doesn’t think the mine was any different to any other mine on the west coast.”
Little praised their Health & Safety Committee.
He said that they take great care.
And he was specifically contradicted about his views on that specific mine by miner Brent Forrester and Gerry Morris.
Now you will post your reference to Little saying the mine was unsafe.
“Baba Yaga”, your posting style reminds me of someone… you haven’t taken 3 steps to the right, have you?
🙄 previously addressed.
I see that now you’re at the stage of demanding things that you deem are relevant based on your inadequate understanding of the english language.
Pretty soon you’ll be claiming you’ve won major victories against everyone else. And that must be true, otherwise you’re just an infantile tory whose schtick is to be semi-literate but functionally incompetent.
““Baba Yaga”, your posting style reminds me of someone… you haven’t taken 3 steps to the right, have you?”
No, I have just returned from a 1 month ban. I have centrist views, and have no party affiliation. For some reason my current posts may make me sound that way though!
Fuck you. If the EPMU had started promoting industrial action at the mine you’d have been first to demand the government do something to stop this return to 1970s workplace disruption. Don’t expect people to be polite with you over this.
Industrial action to support safety would have had my full support. It clearly didn’t have Andrew Little’s.
What incompetence is demonstrated there? It appears to be an accurate assessment. The fact that nothing alerted the union to the risk is something for an investigation to figure out – there is of course the possibility that incompetence in the union was a factor in it, but that’s something that would need to be demonstrated, not just asserted by Trotskyites and right-wing bullshit artists as though it were fact.
Let’s also keep front and centre the facts that health and safety at the mine was the responsibility of the company, not the EPMU. Right-wingers always find unions suddenly very valuable when they’re looking to shift the blame for disasters off the people actually responsible for them. Fuck that and fuck them.
“It appears to be an accurate assessment. ”
Ah, no.
“But Little’s view that everything was fine at Pike River was contradicted by miner Brent Forrester. He told TVNZ’s Sunday (December 5 2010) that he once helped organise a walkout of some ten miners to protest the lack of basic emergency equipment, including stretchers and an emergency transport vehicle. He also said they had received no support from the EPMU.
Little’s apparent lack of concern about what was happening at Pike River and his willingness to believe what management told him, was also highlighted by Gerry Morris of Greymouth, a former writer for Coal magazine. He told the NZ Herald that he had heard regularly from contractors at the mine that “over the last two or three years that this mine is unsafe, there’s far too much gas, there’s going to be a disaster here one day”.”
http://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.co.nz/2017/10/andrew-little-and-pike-river-fatally.html
“Let’s also keep front and centre the facts that health and safety at the mine was the responsibility of the company, not the EPMU.”
Absolutely. And if the author of this post wishes to write a piece attempting to turn management at the mine into heroes, I will argue with the same venom I am here against it.
Maybe you should take this new-found discovery of the importance of unions in holding employers to account back to that thread about the Wellington train strike.
lol
That sounds like an evasion away from addressing my post.
“That sounds like an evasion away from addressing my post.”
Actually, no, “Babayaga/3steps”. Milt’s made a very good point in that you decry the necessity of unions on one blogpost but condemn their alleged “inactivity on safety issues” on this one.
Your hypocrisy is clear enough. Why you’re making a fool of yourself on a forum like The Standard, isn’t.
Just pointing out how laughable your sudden enthusiasm for Trotskyist Marxism and union militance is.
But yeah, your comment. You and Steven Cowan share a common view of who the real enemy is: unions and the Labour Party. Which is why Cowan is keen to spin the disaster as due to the failings of Little and the EPMU, and why you’re happy to quote the spin.
In reality, there’s nothing in the quotes you provide from Cowan to suggest the EPMU was even aware of any safety concerns at the mine, let alone that it deliberately ignored them. That’s just shit Cowan and you are making up.
“Milt’s made a very good point in that you decry the necessity of unions on one blogpost but condemn their alleged “inactivity on safety issues” on this one.”
I haven’t at any point decried the necessity of unions. The point is, though, that Milt didn’t address https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-accelerates-action-on-pike-river-re-entry/#comment-1416832, but chose to sidestep.
“Which is why Cowan is keen to spin the disaster as due to the failings of Little and the EPMU, and why you’re happy to quote the spin. ”
Clearly you haven’t read the Cowan’s post. Cowan is pointing out Little’s hypocrisy, not blaming him for the events at Pike. Here’s an actual quote:
“Although minimal attention is likely to drawn by both the corporate media and Labour-supporting websites to Little’s role in the Pike River disaster, his benevolent attitude towards the management of the mine makes him a poor choice to oversee the supposed re-entry of the mine. He is fatally compromised – but he’s not the only one.”
“In reality, there’s nothing in the quotes you provide from Cowan to suggest the EPMU was even aware of any safety concerns at the mine, let alone that it deliberately ignored them. ”
As I thought…you didn’t read the article.
“But Little’s view that everything was fine at Pike River was contradicted by miner Brent Forrester. He told TVNZ’s Sunday (December 5 2010) that he once helped organise a walkout of some ten miners to protest the lack of basic emergency equipment, including stretchers and an emergency transport vehicle. He also said they had received no support from the EPMU.
Little’s apparent lack of concern about what was happening at Pike River and his willingness to believe what management told him, was also highlighted by Gerry Morris of Greymouth, a former writer for Coal magazine. He told the NZ Herald that he had heard regularly from contractors at the mine that “over the last two or three years that this mine is unsafe, there’s far too much gas, there’s going to be a disaster here one day”.”
ttp://nzagainstthecurrent.blogspot.co.nz/2017/10/andrew-little-and-pike-river-fatally.html
That quote is the exact same quote you posted earlier, and which I pointed out doesn’t include anything to suggest the EPMU was even aware of issues at the mine, let alone deliberately ignoring them.
I pointed that out because, duh-uh, the quotes don’t include anything to suggest the EPMU was even aware of issues at the mine, let alone deliberately ignoring them. Cowan does an excellent job of implying that somehow Little ought to have known what Brent Forrester and Gerry Morris knew, but, like you, offers no basis for that implication.
The other quote you’ve included there is an expression of Steven Cowan’s opinion, which carries no more weight than yours does. His claims about “Little’s role in the Pike River disaster” and $4 will get you a cup of coffee.
That quote is the exact same quote you posted earlier, and which I pointed out doesn’t include anything to suggest the EPMU was even aware of issues at the mine”
So are you suggesting the EPMU knew NOTHING about the “walkout of some ten miners to protest the lack of basic emergency equipment, including stretchers and an emergency transport vehicle.”? The union who represents the workers knew nothing about a walkout? Yeah, right.
Or, that when Brent Forrester says that he received “no support from the EPMU.” it was because he hadn’t told them anything? Yeah, right.
Or that despite Gerry Morris hearing “regularly from contractors at the mine that “over the last two or three years that this mine is unsafe, there’s far too much gas, there’s going to be a disaster here one day”.” that the EPMU knew NOTHING about this? Yeah, right.
So are you suggesting the EPMU knew NOTHING about the “walkout of some ten miners to protest the lack of basic emergency equipment, including stretchers and an emergency transport vehicle.”?
1. I’m suggesting that we have no basis for knowing whether the EPMU knew about it, not that that seems to trouble you or Cowan at all. It’s not a given that workers tell the union everything they do, and non-union-members definitely don’t tell the union stuff.
2. Even if they had mentioned it, there’s no guarantee it wouldn’t have fit with Little’s statement that there was “nothing unusual about Pike River or this mine that we’ve been particularly concerned about,” ie if all the mines have flaws in their safety procedures, this wouldn’t stand out.
Or, that when Brent Forrester says that he received “no support from the EPMU.” it was because he hadn’t told them anything?
Again, who knows? I’m not about to leap to conclusions over it. I’ve become used to hearing complaints about tech support from people outraged that nothing’s ever been done about this problem, and finding they’ve never logged a job about it. I expect unions have the same problem.
Or that despite Gerry Morris hearing “regularly from contractors at the mine that “over the last two or three years that this mine is unsafe, there’s far too much gas, there’s going to be a disaster here one day”.” that the EPMU knew NOTHING about this?
Why exactly would an employees’ union have heard anything about anything from contractors? You do know what a contractor is, I presume?
“I’m suggesting that we have no basis for knowing whether the EPMU knew about it”
10 workers walking off the job in a strike without any Union knowledge before or after? Are you serious? If you are you must think even less of Andrew Little than I do.
To repeat:
1. Who knows? Certainly not you.
2. Even if the EPMU did know, what basis was there for seeing it as unusual? Who knows? Certainly not you.
“Even if the EPMU did know”
They knew.
“what basis was there for seeing it as unusual?”
“Little’s apparent lack of concern about what was happening at Pike River and his willingness to believe what management told him, was also highlighted by Gerry Morris of Greymouth, a former writer for Coal magazine. He told the NZ Herald that he had heard regularly from contractors at the mine that “over the last two or three years that this mine is unsafe, there’s far too much gas, there’s going to be a disaster here one day”.”
See no evil, hear no evil…
Are you aware that repetition of assertions doesn’t increase their credibility?
“Are you aware that repetition of assertions doesn’t increase their credibility?”
I haven’t repeated assertions. The quotes clearly show that some saw the position at Pike as anything but usual, which directly contradicts your own claim.
What are you, two? Person A claims to see something therefore you think person B sees it as well?
Scratch that, I know a two year old who has a solid handle on peek-a-boo. You’re literally dumber than a two year old.
“Person A claims to see something therefore you think person B sees it as well?”
Ok, I’ll make this simple for you. PM asked “Even if the EPMU did know, what basis was there for seeing it as unusual?” I quoted two specific individuals who clearly saw the situation as unusual. The EPMU were told, even PM is prepared to admit that now.
LOL
You are quoting from a conservative/right-wing blog as some sort of impartial reporting?! Really?
Why not go the whole hog and cite ‘Whaleoil’? That’d be even better for a laugh, LOL! 😀
BANG!
There goes the messenger.
“Little’s apparent lack of concern about what was happening at Pike River and his willingness to believe what management told him, was also highlighted by Gerry Morris of Greymouth, a former writer for Coal magazine. He told the NZ Herald that he had heard regularly from contractors at the mine that “over the last two or three years that this mine is unsafe, there’s far too much gas, there’s going to be a disaster here one day”.”
So is Gerry Morris a conservative right winger?
How about miner Brent Forrester?
“He told TVNZ’s Sunday (December 5 2010) that he once helped organise a walkout of some ten miners to protest the lack of basic emergency equipment, including stretchers and an emergency transport vehicle. He also said they had received no support from the EPMU.”
I notice your tendency (which you used under your former pseudonyms) to make references and quotations, without offering citations. Then when pressed for a citation, you triumphantly produce one, as if to “score a point”.
How about you put your citations in the same body of text as the actual quotations, eh?
The quotes above come from the same source I have frequently quoted. You’ve come into this discussion late. Try catching up.
I stand by my observation: you often make references and quotes without attribution and only when challenged do you provide them. You do so with a ‘flourish’ as if you’re proving a point – which you’re not.
I’ve detected two citations which are largely irrelevant to the points you were lamely trying to make.
“you often make references and quotes without attribution ”
Examples?
You made your views on trade union involvement in the workplace fairly clear on another blogpost discussion;
ref: https://thestandard.org.nz/wellington-rail-workers-strike-to-defend-their-working-conditions/#comment-1416386
ref: https://thestandard.org.nz/wellington-rail-workers-strike-to-defend-their-working-conditions/#comment-1415883
ref: https://thestandard.org.nz/wellington-rail-workers-strike-to-defend-their-working-conditions/#comment-1416436
ref: https://thestandard.org.nz/wellington-rail-workers-strike-to-defend-their-working-conditions/#comment-1416387
ref: https://thestandard.org.nz/wellington-rail-workers-strike-to-defend-their-working-conditions/#comment-1416803
There’s more, but I think we get the general gist of your luke-warm attitude toward unions and worker involvement.
Your faux support for union in that you “applaud the unions for what they have achieved over many years against exploitative employers and industries, and I welcome union involvement in workplaces I am involved with” – is crap.
You may be “the CEO of a kiwi owned international business” – but your comments are straight out of Bill Birch’s handbook for the implementation of the Employment Contracts Act.
In plain words
3stepstotherightBaba mate, you’re full of it.“You made your views on trade union involvement in the workplace fairly clear on another blogpost discussion;”
Thank you. Yes I support the right of workers to voluntarily choose to be union members or not. I also support the work unions so and have done for many, many years. I suggest the difference between us is you don’t employ anyone, and are not employed by anyone. So you have very little understanding of how 21st century industrial relations actually works. Am I right?
No, you’re not correct. (Right, yes, as in right-wing. But not correct.)
You’ve made your disdain for trade unions fairly well known and clear. So your crocodile tears here for workers aren’t very much appreciated…
As for your assumption that “the difference between us is you don’t employ anyone” is (a) irrelevant – and harks back to your barely disguised disdain of unions – and (b) wrong.
Your understanding of “how 21st century industrial relations actually works” is from your own employer perspective. So it explains your views on trade unions.
It also explains how you’re exploiting this issue to create a “broken promise” scenario that is pure bullshit.
But what really amuses me is that you think your comments would be taken at face value on this forum, with some fairly highly experienced left-wing activists.
You must have an awful lot of spare time on your hands as a “CEO” to be posting so much.
“You’ve made your disdain for trade unions fairly well known and clear. ”
No, you’re confusing me with someone else. Or you’re deliberately misleading. I harbour no animosity to unions. I have worked with several over the years, always amicably. You simply can’t understand that there is a link between declining union membership and harmonious industrial relationships. That’s your shortcoming, not mine.
In the meantime, I ask again, are you an employer or an employee? If neither, when were you last an employer or an employee?
Of course not. You just want them neutered and powerless.
Your reference to “some kind of 1970’s attitude to industrial relations” – when unions were at their most effective – belies your faux “admiration” of trade unions.
You’re the sort of employer who advocates for unions – as long as they’re not “uppity” and know their place.
Or, to quote you; “the fact that so few workers do join a union does indicate that most don’t believe it is necessary or desirable”.
At a time when wage-growth is all but stagnant and the previous National government further eroded trade union power, unions are more relevant than ever.
Just not the “1970s variety”.
In case you missed it first time, 3steps/babayaga: you’re full of it.
“You just want them neutered and powerless.”
Absolutely not. In fact if I look at this from a purely selfish point of view, I want strong unions, because that would potentially mitigate against bad behaviour by my competitors, behaviour I am not ethically prepared to entertain. As it happens I don’t have that problem, because workplaces in NZ are for the most part harmonious. Which is why only 20% of the population (and those mainly civil servants I suspect) join a union.
What do your betters’ employment status have to do with the quality of their argument, you fetid sponge?
I fit both your criteria and I think you’re a piece of shit with talking points to match, and more importantly, the rote-learned drivel you parrot is a cancer on this country.
Bring on the Chemo.
Then you need help with your bitterness. And your knowledge of the workplace.
Meanwhile, on Earth, your knowledge of English comprehension 101 doesn’t exist: I fit both your criteria.
“I fit both your criteria”
I can only be thankful that you are neither my employer or my employee! It must be a basket of laughs where you work.
Yeah, we’re all miserable and downtrodden. Nothing brightens our days. Apart from good humour and choice clients.
All I remember from the previous government’s Neck Minute Smith was him saying over and over again it was too unsafe to enter the mine. There was no emphasis on re-entry.
That was based on advice from experts. I have read counter opinion, and at the very least there should have been a more thorough investigation into what went wrong, and accountability for the actions taken.
What expert advice was the Government using?
http://www.miningmonthly.com/coal/markets/pike-re-entry-rejected/
Whoa there, Baba mate…
mauī asked you;
What expert advice was the Government using?
You replied;
http://www.miningmonthly.com/coal/markets/pike-re-entry-rejected/
That link doesn’t refer to any “expert advice […] the Government [was] using”. It referred to the ongoing (at the time) 2011 Commission of Inquiry.
Not very honest with your responses, are you?
So the Royal Commission is not expert enough for you?
Please actually go to the references I quote before commenting.
Royal Commissions don’t give “advice” to governments. They make findings.
Ellis was giving advice. Expert advice. To a Royal Commission. Commissioned by the Government.
It is quite obvious you hadn’t even bothered to check the link before commenting.
What if ACT assassinates Winston Peters and hides his body there, and it turns into a cabbage?
#Expertiness
#nosparemasks
Ahhh, so the witness was giving “advice”? To a Royal Commission?
I thought witnesses gave testimony to Commissions?
Any other “elucidations” you want to share with us?
It really pays to check the links you offer. They seem to bear no relation to the point you’re trying (with some difficulty) to make.
I love the way this guy claims to be a successful operator of an international business.
On the face of it, their general incompetence with anything approaching bureaucracy, administration, or comprehension ofthe written word suggests it’s an outright fabrication, but the alternative is equally laughable: BY is yet more proof that neoliberalism is anything but a meritocracy.
“I thought witnesses gave testimony to Commissions?”
They do. And advice to governments.
” I have read counter opinion” – Babayaga/3steps.
Whaleoil and Disney comics don’t count.
Massive own goal, Priss. The ‘counter opinion’ comment is clearly referring to opinion that contradicted the government advice referred to in the previous sentence.
Please quote citation for that “counter opinion”.
Sure:
https://thestandard.org.nz/expert-report-shows-urgent-need-for-pike-river-re-entry-discussions/
Surely you’re not suggesting there was no ‘counter opinion’ to what the government of the day was being told?
Interesting that you’re using The Standard as your ‘counter opinion’ when it doesn’t actually materially comment on Andrew Little, Labour, or actually much else. It condemns National (the party you support) for their non-action.
So really, you got nothing else.
Interesting that you chose to comment without understanding the comments.
I suspected you had misunderstood my comment when I read your response.
The standard reference was not about Andrew Little, because I was responding to https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-accelerates-action-on-pike-river-re-entry/#comment-1416788 about advice received by the government.
You also misunderstood the term ‘counter argument’, didn’t you?
Before commenting, you need to read the posts and the thread. In this case the standard link was quite authoritative.
And I suspect you’ve been called on your mis-representation of that ‘The Standard’ link.
No, because everyone else can see you’re still confused.
The Standard link is to the counter-opinion I referred to.
Counter opinion to the advice the government was getting.
It wasn’t about Andrew Little (https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-accelerates-action-on-pike-river-re-entry/#comment-1417093), a claim you got wrong…
…and it was a counter ‘counter opinion’ to the government advice (https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-accelerates-action-on-pike-river-re-entry/#comment-1417040)…something else you misunderstood.
Pause. Hold. Engage.
In other words, what you posted was an irrelevant red herring.
You’re all over the place.
“what you posted was an irrelevant red herring.”
Not if you were following the discussion. My comment was in response to https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-accelerates-action-on-pike-river-re-entry/#comment-1416788. You didn’t even bother to read the thread
“You’re all over the place.”
You’ve come in to a discussion mid-way, misunderstood a comment, and made yourself look silly. Name call all you like, but they’re the facts.
Did you miss the Royal Commission report
“Did you miss the Royal Commission report”
No. But I agree with the sentiment of Jacinda Ardern when she says a crime scene should not go un-investigated for 7 years. My beef is with Labour’s pre-election rhetoric, which was inherently dishonest.
Out of interest who did you vote for? It is just that so many vote for liars and then bemoan dishonesty.
If you voted, then you most likely voted for liars, because virtually all politicians lie. That Labour supporters somehow thought their party was immune says more about their stupidity than anything else.
PS. In my experience the most honest political grouping in NZ are the Greens. They are far more honest than their Australian counterparts (https://polyfeministix.wordpress.com/2017/06/20/lies-and-lies-from-the-greens-it-is-time-labor-fought-back/), and although I’m not a supporter, I admire the fact that they stand for what they believe. Even if it gets them constantly shafted by their ‘allies’.
Funny… that wasn’t the sentiment you expressed under your previous pseudonym, 3steps to the right, when you posted;
ref: https://thestandard.org.nz/so-there-was-a-housing-crisis-after-all/#comment-1409829
ref: https://thestandard.org.nz/so-there-was-a-housing-crisis-after-all/#comment-1409679
As usual, more BS from you.
Funny that you continue to confuse me with someone else. Is that a deliberate tactic to avoid actually discussing the issues?
Yes, I think your continual name changes are a tactic to avoid actually discussing issues.
You seem to be doing a good job at avoiding actually discussing the issues!
https://thestandard.org.nz/national-on-the-manus-island-crisis/#comment-1417202
Pfft.
Touched a nerve, did he?
Touched a nerve, did he*?
Yeah. The strawman nerve.
*how do you know?
““no, it’s a naive belief that your particular brand of slimy, lying, stupidity is unique even amongst tory trolls.””
Fair enough. But I disagree. I have posted links to support my arguments, and there have been no lies. Any mistakes I make, however, are all mine, and I am happy to stand to be corrected.
They aren’t your arguments: they’re your beliefs, derived from third part sources.
That’s why ” ‘think’ tanks” exist: to circumvent peer review, to insulate you from inconvenient facts. S Rylands can tell you all about it.
‘They aren’t your arguments: they’re your beliefs, derived from third part sources.”
That’s one of your more interesting comments, so I’ll engage.
Wouldn’t you agree that arguments are “a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory”?
no, it’s a naive belief that your particular brand of slimy, lying, stupidity is unique even amongst tory trolls.
I’m more at home with the concept that entitled boofheads and private schools sometimes pass through a phase of visiting leftish blogs (between bouts of date-rape and criminal damage paid off by daddy) and parroting slogans they read on Ayn Rand fanfic porn sites, believing themselves to be the next John Gault or whatever.
I like to think that my opinion is, in the respect, more positive than Robert’s. It means that you’ll grow up and stop taking a dump here.
The thing is, though, that you’re not original. you’re not clever. You’re an idiot, and like all the previous clones, eventually you’ll fuck off or cop a permaban. But sometime after that you or an interchangable boofhead will come back under another handle – maninthemiddle, acrophobic, 3stepstotheright, and so on. All the same brand of boofhead fool.
Troll? Your entire post above is trolling. Good grief man, get a grip.
You asked. I answered. If you didn’t like the answer, grow up and don’t be a boofhead.
“You asked. ”
In response to FRANK!
https://thestandard.org.nz/labour-accelerates-action-on-pike-river-re-entry/#comment-1417168.
You didn’t answer. And who the hell’s Robert?
true, frank not robert. My bad.
Good for you. You actually managed to make a brief connection with the real world.
And I did answer. The question was whether he was using an evasion tactic. I answered “no, it’s a naive belief that your particular brand of slimy, lying, stupidity is unique even amongst tory trolls.”
Wouldn’t you agree that arguments are “a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory”?
Idea: I have lots of those, they’re worthless without rigour.
Support for actions is no measure of worth.
Theories require evidence and peer review before they can even be considered theories.
At this point I think that an investigation into why that proper investigation and prosecution needs to be done as well. What circle of influence prevented it.
+100 and that’s exactly what the hollow men don’t wont.
Farrar, totally missing the point as usual, wants to give the $23million directly to the families and presumably forget all about the whole thing.
@ Muttonbird (9) … Correct in your summation. Called buying the families off, in the hope the issue will completely disapprear. It’s the corrupt Natz way of doing things.
Poor Farrar is seriously deluded, if he thinks the Pike River families have no principles or honour, accepting money in place of finding the truth as to what caused the accident which killed their loved ones!
To be fair, that’s a normal Tory response – offer some blood money in exchange for not having to do anything difficult. “Everyone has their price” is the Tory motto.
Blood Money. Like This…
“Although both the Whittall camp and the MBIE have vehemently denied that the $3.41 million payment to the Pike victims in December was “blood money”, the Grieve letter makes clear that the offer was contingent on the ministry dropping the 12 charges filed against Whittall under the Health and Safety in Employment Act.” …..
http://www.noted.co.nz/archive/listener-nz-2014/pike-river-the-341-million-question/
Informative read by Rebeca Macfie
Or many more relevant articles here:
http://www.noted.co.nz/search/?q=Pike%20River
Perhaps it may elucidate Baba Yaga.
Then She/He can then shut the fuck Off!
True. Farrar was thinking out loud about what would it take to make him stop questioning the death of a loved one.
I think that Labour are backtracking on this a lot. and I agree with Weka that this is not a subject to be used as a political football, but here are Jacindas comments:
“We’ve always had specialist advice that says it is possible to do a safe, manned re-entry and that’s what we’ve committed to,” Ms Ardern said.
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/09/jacinda-ardern-visits-pike-river-reiterates-recovery-pledge.html
So Jacinda and Labour have specialist advise that it is possible to do a safe, manned re-entry.
Based on this advise that it was possible to do a safe reentry – Labour (and the greens and nz first) signed a commitment to
“commit that a new government we are part of will act immediately to safely re-enter, fully recover, make safe and comprehensively investigate the Pike River Mine drift.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11904669
Then “Labour pledges to the families of Pike River, and to all New Zealanders, that we will undertake a safe re-entry of Pike River Mine,” says Jacinda Ardern.
http://www.labour.org.nz/labour_stands_with_pike_families
So I cannot see why they are unwilling to now use their specialist advise and deliver on their commitments.
What are you talking about? They are delivering. They’ve just set up a well funded agency to do what they said they’ve would.
What I was trying to point out (quite poorly perhaps) – is has always been presented by labour (before becoming government) that they had evidence that it was safe and that they would commit to re-enter.
Now that they are government – the seem to need more evidence and will only reenter if safe.
there is a bit of a difference.
edit: This is a touchy subject – so making a big effort to be respectful and not come across as troll-est in this.
It’s called exercising caution as they go through the risk assessment phase.
” and comprehensively investigate the Pike River Mine drift. “
I think you’re making shit up and lying to defend the dishonourable actions of National.
Nope – and all quotes had links to back it up. No point in this post have I referenced anything “National”
Yep but absolutely nothing in there suggested that Labour were backtracking on their promises. Which makes everything you said a lie.
Ok then, how about this:
Quote: “We’ve always had specialist advice that says it is possible to do a safe, manned re-entry and that’s what we’ve committed to,” Ms Ardern said.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11945815
“If there is going to be a re-entry … it’ll be the back half of next year, and certainly we were saying at the anniversary yesterday that perhaps by this time next year we will have a different story to tell,” Little told Radio NZ’s Morning Report.
Little said the agency would consider the advice on whether a manned re-entry was possible, he said.
“There are risks, and most of those risks can be managed. If there is a possibility, then let’s work towards that.”
Heard of a risk assessment before?
Yep – been done I assume – “We’ve always had specialist advice that says it is possible to do a safe, manned re-entry and that’s what we’ve committed to,” Ms Ardern said
Unless that specialist advice that says it is safe didnt include a risk assessment?
I think I understand the problem.
You see, Labour view “expert advice” as advice from experts as to whether something can be done and how it can be done safely. Now they have the resources and access to the mine, they can work on the “how” in detail, but in the knowledge that it might throw up some unforseen insurmountable obstacle. They will make an honest effort to enter the mine.
National view “expert advice” as a convenient way to absolve themselves from legal and ethical responsibility.
You don’t think its odd that Jacinda (when in opposition) says they have specialist advice that manned re-entry is possible and then Andrew (when in power) says they would consider advice on manned re-entry
You are being very eagle eyed on contradictory statements now your team is not in govt? I hope this vigilance continues long after Nats next come to power.
Theres not many perks to being in opposition but one is pointing out where the current government falls short
You know, keeping the government honest and all 🙂
I note you avoid a comment on keeping all govts honest. Hint. You dont achieve it by electing people who lie to your face… over and over and over.
Well Tracey its early days but the kerfuffle over the speaker was certainly not a good look from Labour “no really we gave up a position because we wanted to avoid a vote even though we knew we had the numbers” and then the whole 48 weeks maternity leave thing could be construed as a “misspoke”
QED
Then it will be your turn again 😉
You will find I am critical of the same things in this govt as the previous
Nats will never be in a position to fit their well padded arses on Treasury benches again until such time as they find some friends. That they are such an unloved bunch of misery guts is their problem, and this whole charade of Pike River is just one example of their unloveliness.
No.
Because of nact dilly-dallying and lolly-gagging, Labour’s expert advice is probably years old. Maybe the mine has further collapsed. Maybe something else has happened. Maybe the information available was general, and missed specific details the nacts never mentioned.
Now people who actually want to do something have control of the mine, the problem can be worked through by professionals. Safely.
Maybe there was never any advice in the first place and maybe it was Labour trying to score political points off a tragedy
As you say maybe
One thing there’s absolutely no maybes about: you don’t give a fuck. Not one little bit.
Whatever I may, or may not, give a fuck about doesn’t change what Labour said in opposition and what Labour are now saying in power
And the things they say are not contradictory, no matter how much a carrion-eater wants to spin it.
Is it comfortable dancing on the head of a pin this early?
There’s only one point to the political game you’re playing.
But everyone reading those comments knows that Labour has consistently intended to gain entry to that mine. In good faith.
Mcflock
Ah good faith. Now you have moved beyond the mental capacity of those who kept voting for the Nats.
@ P R
Maybe you could do some honest research for a change – it’s not difficult and google is your friend:
my bold
13 Dec 2016
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11765949
Considering that the advice that Labour had is the advice that they got from the miner’s families I suspect you’ll have difficulty peddling that lie even to other RWNJs.
Yes. And it’s odd that Andrew Little has admitted in an interview with Duncan Garner that he is still reading Government reports on Pike. It just seems so obvious they over egged this. And it was really all so unnecessary.
It’s time for your reality check.
Which (I hope) turns the sunlight where it belongs: onto those that proposed the bargain, and the reasons they did so, not Whittall.
Which has nothing to do with the post you were responding to!!
LOL
Nope, still not backing off from it. They’ve had advice and now they’re doing a detailed study.
It’s fairly normal business practice for anyone who has a brain.
See 6.1, and have a listen James. There may actually be practicalities to work through !
Something National ignored, and have done there damnedest these last 6 years to obfuscate and cover up!
Andrew Little has ethics, integrity, humanity and decency. He will work through this evolving and difficult issue with very capable and honest intent, just as he has the other issues he has dealt with since becoming a minister.
All this crap from Hoskings. Leighten Smith.James Baba Yaga
They know it all, there is only one group we should listen to. are the labour party doing as promised. ask the families who lost their members. and the rest of the fools who are going off on this shut up. and see what happens
I think the families would be the first to squeal if they sniffed they were being played.
Well said Tracey. When the families start complaining is when these RWNJs should start their cacophonous chirping. They are currently trying a Dawn Chorus at 11pm. Unconvincing.
Considering that the Nats have been trying to do it for years and failed to fool them, certainly.
I will take note of the families. And I will follow Frank Macskasy as he always backs his opinions with facts and references. The trolls can piss off under their bloody bridge.