Leaders under pressure

42 comments on “Leaders under pressure ”

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1. Blue 1

   10 November 2012 at 12:16 pm

   Duncan Garner is just another one of the morons who swallowed Key’s bullshit hook line and sinker at the last election. No one really thought Key would get a surplus in 2014, except our apparently braindead fourth estate. Now they’re all ‘OMG! Keyz not going to get a surplus in 2014! Noes!’

   FFS. It was a pile of horseshit from the word go and instead of calling him on it the media blindly parroted his crap and revelled in his ‘show the me money!’ and ‘I know numbers!’ posturing. They let the public think that a surplus was a real possibility and that only Key’s government could get us there.

   Some wild speculation based on rosy predictions pulled out of someone’s arse and assembled into an official-looking spreadsheet and the journos go gaga about how Key is an economic saviour. Spare me.
   • aerobubble 1.1

     10 November 2012 at 12:34 pm

     What gets me is Labour reluctance to hit back. Take mining. Pike River did not start producing coal until Key came to power. The GFC collapse would obviously put pressure on executives to choose between safety and bankruptcy. That deregulation worked when extra investment was easily available to cover safety needs because returns was so spectacular. And therein lies the problem, Labour inability to foresee the obvious counter attacks because its unwillingness to put a line under the GFC as a structural change to the global economy, that Labour believe the bullshit of National, that growth is just around the corner. Its basic physics, our world runs on non-renewable and once demand out paces supply the whole economic system shifts down a gear or two. That Labour is incapable of hitting home is staggering give how pathetic Key is becoming. He’s losing ministers left right and center, he’s dependent the three stooges, of Maori, UF and Act (see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil though Banks has so much of it). If National had a backbench with a backbone Key would be rolled by now, but that the problem with limiting parliament to 120 senators. We need a upper chamber, we need a good 300 MPs will substantial knifes in the back waiting for any flaw.
     • kiwicommie 1.1.1

       10 November 2012 at 12:42 pm

       ‘Growth’ is not around the corner. New Zealand needs a stimulus, a big investment in education and infrastructure (especially broadband), and green jobs. Pushing austerity is not going to make the New Zealand economy grow or unemployment decline. National’s cut economy is a disaster, failing to intervene in the economy was pure stupidity and we are paying the price of it.
       • aerobubble 1.1.1.1

         10 November 2012 at 1:19 pm

         Stimulate what? More oil usage. The problem globally is we locked in excessive oil incorporation in our very lifestyles. Growth is never the goal, its the result of good governance, and we haven’t gotten growth since the GFC (except inflation), so what is the goal?

         Well more diversity of exports, and that obviously means reducing existing investment as investment money isn’t going to be growing, i.e. reducing existing base resource exports, or raw materials and raw young skilled people exports and target global demand for different.

         And even if we do elect a competent govt, the same tools that drove us into the bankrupt state of affairs are still there waiting for another generation of a invincible-know-it-all-boomer-generation, too big for their egos, short on ability, and lost in the complexity; who will take over with another blather of stupid neo-neo-liberalism headed by uber investment salesman.
     • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2

       10 November 2012 at 1:43 pm

       We need a upper chamber, we need a good 300 MPs will substantial knifes in the back waiting for any flaw.

       That’s got to be the worst suggestion that I’ve ever seen for fixing the house. Society works through cooperation. Make it all about competition and knifing people in the back and society will collapse – just like it’s doing at the moment.
   • blue leopard 1.2

     10 November 2012 at 1:24 pm

     Well said Blue (post 1)
     The media’s presentation of the issues has a lot to answer for.
   • Fortran 1.3

     11 November 2012 at 1:59 pm

     Blue

     Right first time – he is a moron who is just trying to ingratiate himself in his own self belief that he is the only political hack who knows best.
2. r0b 2

   10 November 2012 at 12:27 pm

   I see that Eddie has just posted with a conclusion completely the opposite of mine. Just another working day at a leftie collective blog then!
   • PlanetOrphan 2.1

     10 November 2012 at 12:47 pm

     It’s been on the cards for a while now.

     Always been a problem for the opposition parties in general, they have to wait for the next election.

     It’d be a mistake to pander to people, they need solid ground for people to climb up onto with them.

     Personally I think David Shearer is doing a great Job, He is responding to his critics with solid policy, that’s a lot more than most opposition parties have ever done.

     Keep up the great work David Shearer …. When the tough get going etc ….
     • Colonial Viper 2.1.1

       10 November 2012 at 12:56 pm

       Personally I think David Shearer is doing a great Job, He is responding to his critics with solid policy, that’s a lot more than most opposition parties have ever done.

       I’m a bit mystified what solid policy you are referring to, unless it is previously released Labour policy?
       • PlanetOrphan 2.1.1.1

         10 November 2012 at 1:04 pm

         Not a lot as yet I’ll grant you, but solid direction none the less.
         I’d like too see what he has in mind for health and education next.

         Cut and paste sorry …

         Jobs:
         Convert the dole into a subsidy for employers willing to take on one of the 84,000 young New Zealanders not in work or training as an apprentice.

         Introduce a ‘one in a million’ rule for companies awarded major government contracts to take on one apprentice for every $1 million of taxpayers’ dollars they receive.

         Make sure Kiwis have the first crack at jobs by asking businesses to prove they’ve exhausted all options before bringing in workers from overseas.

         Support the job-rich manufacturing sector by investing in innovation through a R&D tax credit and giving the Reserve Bank a wider mandate to tackle the high and volatile dollar.

         Take the tough decisions on the big issues holding our economy back like expanding KiwiSaver, making Superannuation affordable and reforming the tax system.

         I’d rather get young New Zealanders off the dole and into apprenticeships.

         Labour will require government agencies to do a wider economic analysis of major contracts to ensure they deliver the best price and quality as well as the maximum benefits of the NZ economy.

         What is policy CV if not the above ?
         • RedLogix 2.1.1.1.1

           10 November 2012 at 3:01 pm

           But if Shearer cannot convert this excellent policy, and leverage his role as leader into something that a larger portion of New Zealanders believe in as Prime Minister … then it’s not enough. Sadly.

           I’ve no beef with Shearer as a person. I believe those people who say that in small groups, in person, he’s very good. I suspect he’d make a very good ‘chairman of the board’ style of PM … a bit like Jim Bolger.

           But that’s not enough. Eddie has nailed all the critical things Shearer falls short on … and crucially ….has not shown the innate talent or will to improve on.

           Put it this way. At some point in the next election campaign Shearer will have to front Key in a one-on-one debate. Result???
   • lprent 2.2

     10 November 2012 at 12:57 pm

     Yep r0b. Exactly the point you made about the diversity of opinion amongst authors.

     Actually we do have an editorial policy. I think I can safely say we all hate trolls and most of our policy relates to them.
3. Colonial Viper 3

   10 November 2012 at 12:31 pm

   I agree with Small that a lot his riding on this Conference. Shearer’s speech, how he comes across as a leader, and what he reveals about a new direction for Labour is critical.

   We don’t have another 12 months to wait around to see if he can lift his game. He has to do it right now, starting at Conference.
   • David H 3.1

     10 November 2012 at 4:03 pm

     No He’s had his 12 months and that’s long enough. The conference should be to anoint a new leader, and getting the direction the party needs to go in order to regain it’s lost support. Shearer is just Blah.
4. bbfloyd 4

   10 November 2012 at 1:36 pm

   There are good arguments for both shearers leadership style, and Cunliffes leadership style…

   The fact that there are “at least” two people cabable of adopting the leaders mantle, and discharging their duties, and responsibilities effectively, with intelligence, and foresight, should be a reason for celebration….

   But no… we have to get into a brawl over which one is the better to lead….

   The Labour party, the Green party, and New Zealand First, have already shown enough for us to see how effectively they can work together…..

   How would that translate into effective governance, One wonders? I Think it bodes well….

   So how many “great orators” did the first Labour govenment contain? not many from my experience…. yet the effectiveness of their policy implementation is still felt today….
5. Chalupa Batman 5

   10 November 2012 at 1:55 pm

   Patience Lefties, with luck and hard work, Shearer’s leadership will outlast Key’s…

   Seriously? You seriously think Shearer will lead Labour and/or the country longer than John Key?

   If Shearer wins the election he’ll be ousted in a coup, if he loses the election he’ll be gone before lunch time (so to speak)
   • bbfloyd 5.1

     10 November 2012 at 2:11 pm

     Extremely facile bit of mis interpretation there batshit…….You do know that making such elementary mistakes in interpretation simply leave you standing on your own in front of those headlights…. don’t you??
6. the sprout 6

   10 November 2012 at 2:36 pm

   Shearer’s problems are no more surmountable than Key’s. And with each day of bumbling inaction Shearer becomes more complicit in the disaster of Key’s government.
   • blue leopard 6.1

     10 November 2012 at 2:52 pm

     @sprout
     You voice the issue as I see it. When the severe incompetence and disrespectful attitudes being shown by our current Government are met with the mildness that Labour are coming across with, the message it is giving me is that they don’t mind that much; and leads me to believe that they intend to do much the same when in Government.

     I’m unclear as to whether this is the fault of Mr Shearer or his advisors, I really question this aspect; they appear to have been taking a “gently gently catch the monkey approach” for 4 years now, and at what point, and how bad do the Government need to get before some clear and firm opposition is voiced?
   • fatty 6.2

     10 November 2012 at 3:32 pm

     I agree with you the sprout…first impression counts for a lot, and Shearer’s first impression was a guitar strumming nice guy. Now he has to reframe his image as being someone who is competent, determined, and a leader. But its too late for that, Shearer is perceived as a nice guy, that is all.

     @blue leopard – “I’m unclear as to whether this is the fault of Mr Shearer or his advisors”

     Its both, it has been a pathetic strategy from the outset, and his advisors are responsible for that, but Shearer is the leader. Time to flush the dunny and move on
     • blue leopard 6.2.1

       10 November 2012 at 3:57 pm

       …perhaps someone should check whether the advisors are still alive then??

       Perhaps they communicate by email, and it is simply an automated service or something and whoever was running the programme has quietly popped off?

       They have been following the same approach for years and expecting different results.

       This isn’t a small party, and they aren’t on small salaries. What is going on???

       [gnashing of teeth]
     • Rhinocrates 6.2.2

       26 November 2012 at 3:13 pm

       I don’t even perceive him as a “nice guy”, just someone who thinks that he’s one… alright, wants to be seen as one… Look, Claire Trev…something… says he is … right, you bastards, if you’re not going to see me as a nice guy, I will have you flogged until you do!

       Insert these where you will:

       Um, ah, er, um, ah, um, er, I mean, some say that, ah, errrr, no that’s not true, well, [licks lips] I really mean, um, …, ah, no, I mean, ah, [licks lips] move ahead, ah, ah, um, ah, new, [licks lips] ah, painting his roof, ah… I was talking about perceptions, and I agreed with him, ah, um, no…
       • blue leopard 6.2.2.1

         27 November 2012 at 12:59 am

         Lol

         re lip licking
         When a dog is nervous and “knows” it has done something wrong it licks its lips and swallows while looking sideways from the corners of its eyes, (not directly at you) -similar body language from Mr Shearer a lot of the time.

         An indication of ulterior motives that he ultimately knows would not be supported if there was some transparency perhaps?
7. blue leopard 7

   10 November 2012 at 3:28 pm

   One of the issues I see going on with Labours approach over the last few years and particularly at present is summed up by a quote from the I Ching:

   Modesty is not to be confused with weak good nature that lets things take
   their own course. When a man holds a responsible position, he must at times
   resort to energetic measures. In doing so he must not try to make an
   impression by boasting of his superiority but must make certain of the people
   around him. The measures taken should be purely objective and in no way
   personally offensive. Thus modesty manifests itself even in severity.

   We wish for “decent” politics which involves “fair-play” and where qualities of decency are valued and yet to follow such ideals without acknowledgement and counteraction to the underhand and manipulative tactics of the opposition (right-wing) we are currently facing is simply handing those with less scruples the “victory” on a silver platter.

   Appealing to people’s better nature does not appear to be working while opinion manipulation tactics are being indulged in, by right-wing strategists, tactics which involve appealing to people’s worst natures.

   Something is required to counteract such; it doesn’t need to be equal in immorality, however it does need to be equal in power.

   Believing “truth will prevail” is dear to my heart; however there is a point where this ideal, without discernment becomes unrealistic and naive. That point comes when the opposition’s tactics are seen too filthy to be acknowledged, “beneath us” and thereby are allowed to be applied unopposed. It must be noted also, that the truth may eventually prevail regardless of the power of opinion manipulation, however the issue of how much damage is being done, while people come to their senses arises too.

   I don’t consider Labour are striking the delicate balance between mildness and severity effectively at present.
   • PlanetOrphan 7.1

     10 November 2012 at 3:33 pm

     Bloody well said M8!
     • blue leopard 7.1.1

       10 November 2012 at 3:36 pm

       It was such a long comment, I wondered whether anyone would read it, thank you! 🙂
   • Huginn 7.2

     10 November 2012 at 10:29 pm

     Good post, thanks.
8. Ed 8

   10 November 2012 at 3:49 pm

   Thanks you Anthony for a balanced post. It came as a shock to me to see Vernon Small quote the Standard as the source for much discontent with Shearer – and on looking to see that probably the most trenchant criticism of Shearer (possibly after Whaleoil) is indeed from The Standard. Yes there are plenty of posts attacking National as well, but to give an example there has been more in the last few days about why Labour needs to replace Shearer (including the later post from Eddie) than there has been about the reality of poor unemployment figures and other government disasters. There has been very little about options available to the government to do better, or about policies Labour has already put forward or could put forward in future. Now I know that the left do not want to end up just providing National with the answers he clearly lacks, but there should be able to be some discussion that is not internally focused. Where are the discussions that put current issues into a ‘Left’ framework rather than the “the free market knows best”, “government needs to let companies get on with it” framework of the Right?

   One area that perhaps we can take some lessons from National is in directing productive criticism (positive or negative) in the direction most likely to produce the result that we want. That is not to say debate should be stifled – one of the strengths of the left is that we are more prepared to openly discuss issues than National, and often that leads to better consensus, fewer surprises, better policies and better ways of expressing policies and intentions. That does not mean we have to pick up every troll or suggestion that attempts to destabilise the hopes of a left victory at the next election – sometime it would be better to address concerns directly to people in the Labour and Green Parties. Imagine what National would be like if every mistake of Key, or criticism of him, was analysed in one of the Nat-supporting blogs. No, they may mention it as proof that behind the genius is a real human, or more likely ignore it totally and either attack someone else, or talk about a different topic.

   And yes, Shearer will in my view last longer than Key – he is showing signs of being sick of it all – saying something like “I came in as John Key and I’m going out as John Key.” does sound as though that is in the process of happening right now. Do National have anyone who could be an acceptable face for the next election?
   • blue leopard 8.1

     10 November 2012 at 4:50 pm

     @Ed

     I think a lot of your suggestions are productive approaches that could be taken, I also see a lot of them are being pursued on The Standard (alternatives ways of addressing the issues we face are discussed a lot here).
     Your comment appears to miss a point of concern that, I believe, is causing the debate and criticism of Labour’s current approach and impact.

     This Government is failing on myriads of fronts. Last term they also were conducting dubious activities behind the scenes that were setting NZ up for failure, however, they were successfully managing a “fair and reasonable” face (largely by repeating these words ad infinitum) This term the failure, both moral and practical is entirely blatant and yet the polls are indicating that National’s popularity are not falling in the devastating fashion one would expect.

     I believe the criticism being expressed toward Mr Shearer, Labour (and the media) are all motivated by this anomaly. Opposition parties have a job to do when in opposition and that is to create alternatives to the approaches and activities of the current Government. It is my belief that the debate and criticism surrounding the Labour party is around the near complete void being provided by them in this duty and arises from trying to make sense as to why this is occurring whilst a Government as shoddy as the one we have in power currently, which would appear to make this duty as simple as anyone could hope for.
   • Huginn 8.2

     11 November 2012 at 12:20 am

     I love The Standard and I value it but it’s important to recognise that from time to time its strengths may also count as weaknesses.

     The Standard is very open to the diversity of opinion on the Left – contributors step up from a very broad base to take up and defend strongly held positions. It’s a transparent exchange, and that’s good, but it’s also easy for naive (or lazy) analysts to over-rely on it because it’s all they can see.

     Key’s in trouble. Big trouble. He’s limping and quacking and bleeding in the water all at the same time. Do you think we’re the only ones who have noticed that? Come on, this is politics!

     Key is surrounded by ambitious people who are undoubtedly thinking the same things that we are, that:

     – Key is a stupid liar, and that he has to lie because he doesn’t do his homework
     – he tailors his story to suit his audience, so he’s treacherous
     – there are big, unanswered questions about Key’s involvement with the GCSB’s illegal surveillance of Kim Dotcom and God only knows what’s going to come out next – or when and who is he going to take down with him?

     Not to mention the economy.

     And they’ll be thinking that if they have to do something about it soon, or risk going into another election with him. So in a few weeks they’ll be talking it over as they tend their summer barbecues and there will be plotting to roll him.

     We don’t see any of what must be enormous dissatisfaction and anxiety about Key because the Right doesn’t have anything like The Standard. And we have to learn to take that into account.
   • Jenny 8.3

     11 November 2012 at 4:34 am

     Now I know that the left do not want to end up just providing National with the answers he clearly lacks, but there should be able to be some discussion that is not internally focused. Where are the discussions that put current issues into a ‘Left’ framework rather than the “the free market knows best”, “government needs to let companies get on with it” framework of the Right?

     Ed

     My goodness Ed. Is this really the reason that Shearer and the parliamentary Labour Party have not been hammering the government? In that they think they might be providing National with they answers (he) clearly lack.

     On so many levels this sort of thinking is so WRONG!

     Morally, tactically, logically, politically.

     Morally: People are hurting now. And if you are withholding good solutions that might end their suffering because National might get the credit, then this shows a cynical and selfish sectarian approach that doesn’t care for ending peoples suffering at all, especially if ending that suffering affects the progress of the Labour Party. This approach shows a political party only interested in progressing a sectarian grouping. And the careers of the individuals within that grouping.

     Tactically: Well this one is obvious, and is happening now. The result – A completely silent opposition. If you have the answers you should be giving them. If you are silent because you are worried that the government would steal your ideas then your then your solutions can not be all that different to what the government are doing now, or will be doing in the future. And your silence communicates this.

     Logically: Politics – definition the struggle between left and right between rich and poor, between the powerful and the powerless. Left Wing Ideals and strategies, if they are truly left, by definition, cannot be expropriated by right wing parties. If they were then they would no longer be Right Wing parties. From those suffering under Right Wing policies it doesn’t matter which group of individuals put forward Left Wing policies, as long as they are put forward.

     The same with Right Wing Ideals, by definition they cannot not be expropriated by parties of the left because by doing so they would no longer be parties of the left.

     Politically: If any Labour MP still thinks that Labour should keep silent out of fear of giving National good ideas, then they are morally and tactically and logically lost, and have absolutely no bloody idea about politics and you should not be holding the position they have.

     It is not all about getting, or keeping, one sect or other in power, it is all about achieving the best results overall for the greatest number.

     And that goes for every political policy issue; relieving poverty, ending war, saving the environment.

     One side’s interests are not served by ending any of those things, and so they will not take up any solutions offered up by the other side that will do so.

     If you lose sight of that then you lose sight of what the political struggle is about.
9. lefty 9

   10 November 2012 at 8:11 pm

   When people started questioning rogernomics the likes of Prebble, Douglas, Goff and Basset blamed the problem on ‘not communicating well enough’ rather than accepting that many people now saw their policies as failures.

   Don Brash’s supporters always put his failure to win support down to his poor communication skills rather than his toxic history and policies.

   Key is now starting to say he is not communicating well enough rather than admit people are starting to want something more substantial than ‘Mr Nice Guy’ from him.

   Shearer loyalists blame his failure to gain any credibility on a lack of communication skills rather than accepting that if people want a beneficiary bashing political leader who wants more austerity, higher retirement ages and a continuation of neo liberalism they might as well stick with Key.

   It seems whenever the people start seeing through right wingers they and their supporters put it down to communication problems, rather than the fact they are not putting forward credible policies and people don’t want them anymore.

   Its not about the messenger. Its not about the msm (biased though it is). Its about being credible.

   Key may have worn his credibility out.

   Shearer has never managed to establish any.

   A good speech or two will not change that for either of them now.
   • karol 9.1

     10 November 2012 at 8:29 pm

     Certainly, to me the message is more important than how it’s delivered, lefty.  And Shearer and Robertson are too much soft neoliberal for me.  Robertson delivers that POV better than Shearer.
10. hush minx 10

    10 November 2012 at 10:06 pm

    It occurs to me as I read this and those over at Eddie’s post there is general recognition, even from those who believe shearer is the right choice for Labour, is that if he is to succeed something new has to happen. There’s also a common theme that he is relying on advice from people who may also be regarded as not performing. Perhaps the scrutiny should also turn on them? They say the leaders office is studded with staff who have close ties to grant. Perhaps shearer needs to step out with his own people so that he can determine his own direction and future?
11. Tracey 11

    12 November 2012 at 11:53 am

    ” The dreadful news was clearly counter to the advice the Government has received from the Treasury” Actually Fran it’s contrary to everything he is prepared to “see”. You don’t have to look around you much to see that NZers are in some trouble, unless you are in a sound booth doing talkback or playing golf in a chrity tournament… then everything looks just fine.
12. Tracey 12

    12 November 2012 at 11:54 am

    “When people started questioning rogernomics the likes of Prebble, Douglas, Goff and Basset blamed the problem on ‘not communicating well enough’ ” That was a cover for we need to find a way to talk about this in a way that the punters won’t see what we’re actually doing cos we still think it’s right. A lesson this government learned so very well to our collective detriment.

    For example when Key is campaigning he puts away the “natural” John Key, the one who is disrespectful to others and can’t remember stuff. He came in as one kind of John key and performed as another….

    when was the last time he spoke of accountability and transparency…. his mantras of 2008, and “aspiration” his mantra from 2008-2010?

Links to post

1. Thanks DPF for my laugh of the day « The Standard: posted on 12 November 2012 at 11:21 am
2. Shuffle the caucus deck « The Standard: posted on 12 November 2012 at 12:07 pm
3. A note to a media commentator « The Standard: posted on 17 November 2012 at 2:57 am
4. Why I will party vote for the Greens « The Standard: posted on 26 November 2012 at 2:51 pm

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