No one can have any confidence in a Nat NZF coalition

Written By: - Date published: 7:01 am, August 30th, 2017 - 45 comments
Categories: bill english, Dirty Politics, election 2017, national, same old national, winston peters - Tags: , , , , ,

The Peters super story looks like a clumsy dirty politics hit by National.

Rachel Smalley: Winston Peters super saga: I smell a rat

I smell a rat. I think a few people do. You’ve got to ask yourself, who benefits from this? If Peters takes a hit in the polls, if this blows up, who wins? National does. …

Barry Soper: No doubt National leaked Peters dirt

“There is no doubt in my mind at all, that this leak came from the National Party.”

Winston Peters warned he was being ‘taken down’ by National

NZ First leader Winston Peters says he was warned someone in the National Party was “trying to take him down” over a pension overpayment.

He says he has no doubt National campaign chair Steven Joyce and leader Bill English were passed on his personal pension information.
…
Peters says that was “dirty and “illegal” and in his decades in Parliament he’s never known anything like that sort of information being passed on under that policy. …

Cameron Slater taking tough as usual:

Over the weekend the usual rabble on Twitter started getting over-excited that there was another election scandal to come. The rumour mill did it’s job, and it rounded on two people. Paula Bennett and Winston Peters. Only the National party were pushing the Winston Peters scandal. Everyone else was pushing Paula Bennett.

National deny it of course. But that’s the problem with having a reputation for dirty politics. No one believes you. Certainly Peters doesn’t, and is angry:

Peters maintains National to blame for leak

Winston Peters has rejected an assurance from the Prime Minister, who said a leak about the New Zealand First leader’s superannuation overpayment did not come from National Party ministers. …

Winston Peters accuses National of ‘filth and dirt’

Winston Peters is on the warpath over who leaked details of his pension over-payments.

The New Zealand First leader says he’s the victim of a privacy breach, claiming it’s dirty politics orchestrated by the National government – and he’ll “lodge a serious action” when his lawyer returns from an overseas holiday today.

And it’s been revealed two senior government ministers knew about it, and so did the Prime Minister’s office. …

‘You’ve got a political party exposed all the way to the Prime Minister’ – Winston slams Nats as English says Ministers knew super details
…
Three investigations are now underway into whether Mr Peters superannuation overpayment details were leaked.

“You’ve got a political party that’s been deeply exposed now all the way to the prime minister,” Mr Peters told media after a public meeting in Whangarei this morning.
…
“This is humbug – it’s tawdry, its dirty, it’s filthy and they should not succeed on it.” …

Winston Peters says National MPs knew of his super overpayment before he did
…
Asked if the National Party could be trusted, he said: “I’ll leave that to the public to decide but you’ve got people who engage in chartacter assassination for political reasons and its dirty and its illegal.”
…
He referred to Bennett having previously released personal information about a beneficiary.

“That’s why New Zealand should be afraid. That’s the kind of ethical standard some people think should be kosher for New Zealand.” …

Fair points all.

This looks like a huge miscalculation by National. And even if they (assuming Peters holds the balance of power after the election) manage to buy him off and govern, no one can have any confidence in the stability of such a broken relationship.

Recall that Peters has called on English to resign over the Barclay Scandal. The Nats are going after Peters in Northland. English and Peters hate each other.

As a footnote, Richard Harmon on the Politik blog explains some of the “logic” behind the Nats going for Peters:

National sees path to victory
…
The strategy then is clear; to try and boost National’s vote — thought to be in the mid-40s – by two per cent or so, and then to rely on a high wasted vote from the Greens, TOP plus ACT to reduce the percentage it needs to get half the seats in Parliament.

Last election the so-called wasted vote was 7.15%; that meant that to get half the seats in Parliament a party needed to get 46.4% of all the votes.
…
If the wasted vote is much the same as the last election, then National probably needs another two or three per cent to win a majority of the seats.

The sources spoken to by POLITIK believe that is achievable if it can motivate its provincial and rural supporters to vote at the same time as it chips away at the soft Labour vote. …

More numbers and reasoning on Politik.

45 comments on “No one can have any confidence in a Nat NZF coalition ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Ed 1
    30 August 2017 at 7:19 am

    Anne Tolley.
    Paula Bennett.
    Wayne Eagleson.

    Walls have ears.

    • greywarshark 2.1
      30 August 2017 at 12:21 pm

      Another case for a suitable UBI for all ages. All this checking on you, it’s back to charity attitudes instead of rights. With UBI as a superannuant if you were well supported with your own income you would presumably have a small amount of cash from the state and be helped with medical care and not much more. But it wouldn’t be cut if you did this or that outside limits set by government departments.

    • Muttonbird 3.1
      30 August 2017 at 8:05 am

      Mr Peters sided with National after the country’s first MMP election in 1996, despite having an often bitter relationship with National’s leader at the time, Jim Bolger.

      Flashpoints included Mr Peters being sacked from Mr Bolger’s cabinet in 1991, Mr Bolger calling Mr Peters a racist, and Mr Peters calling Bolger “unfit to govern”.

      Mr Peters was eventually appointed deputy prime minister and treasurer, with the National-New Zealand First coalition lasting two years before he was sacked from Cabinet again in 1998, forcing him back to the opposition benches for the next six years.

      If there is a Nat/NZF government we can expect to see much more of this and ten times more bitter.

      Is that what Peters means is ‘best for the country’?

      Great times ahead…

      • Peter ChCh 3.1.1
        30 August 2017 at 10:07 am

        The chances of a National/NZF government are unquestionably dead and buried now. Labour alone possibly or Labour/NZF are the result.

        Unbelievable ineptitude on Nationals part. Tolleys silence speaks volumes.

  4. chris73 4
    30 August 2017 at 7:37 am

    My take on it is Winston will get his revenge after the election, he won’t just want a pound of flesh from English he’ll want the whole body and he’ll make it as difficult for National as he can so a National/NZFirst alliance is still a go

    Unless National drops below 40 of course then all bets are off

    • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1
      30 August 2017 at 7:52 am

      Labour are going to benefit from this.

      Winston is an unknown quantity at the best of times, National’s criminal ethics are on public display.

      Now even more people are going to flock to that nice Jacinda.

      • Pat 4.1.1
        30 August 2017 at 8:42 am

        tribal affiliations will remain….nothing has really changed except at the margins….which is what National’s chances are…marginal

        • Dirk Meatwhistle 4.1.1.1
          30 August 2017 at 9:57 am

          Labour, finally, learnt from National but it appears National didn’t learn from Labour

          Shame really but as long as Winston can keep the Greens out and keep the reigns on Labour NZ won’t so badly

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.1.1
            30 August 2017 at 2:42 pm

            Yawn. Winston won’t have a choice, and NZ will do fine. When it does, you will deny it and cling to your bitterness like a baby with a blankie.

            • Dirk Meatwhistle 4.1.1.1.1.1
              30 August 2017 at 3:02 pm

              You mean like the lefties during Sir John Keys glorious reign? Naah if that happens I’ll accept NZs decision because I actually believe in democracy

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                30 August 2017 at 3:24 pm

                Civics 101: opposing the government is actually a fundamental feature of democracy. That’s why they call it “opposition”.

                However, that isn’t what I said: I said when the country does well with the Greens in government, you will deny it and clutch at your bitterness blankie.

                Oh, and you didn’t answer my question: are you ignorant or lying?

        • Peter ChCh 4.1.1.2
          30 August 2017 at 10:13 am

          Disagree. This is huge for every New Zealander of every political persuasion.

          If this really was a leak from National Mp’s, then it is clear corruption and heads will roll. This goes way beyond just who gets into government in a months time.

          It also gives NZF a lot of positive airtime at this crucial period, and will likely lead to at least one Minister stepping down pre election. Tolleys silence makes it look like it might be hers. Either way, National is a dead duck for this election.

          • Pat 4.1.1.2.1
            30 August 2017 at 11:26 am

            much of that is true…and still unlikely to move many votes…..how many times have National been shown to be behaving unethically and to what effect?

            • Peter ChCh 4.1.1.2.1.1
              30 August 2017 at 11:43 am

              Not just unethically in this case, if it was National. This would be criminal. Wait and see, Tolley will step down.

              • Pat …
                30 August 2017 at 12:29 pm

                not criminal (unless via IRD)…most likely source is a breach of government proscribed ‘convention”…and either way is unlikely to be resolved within 3 and a half weeks

          • Anne 4.1.1.2.2
            30 August 2017 at 11:48 am

            There’s an interesting comment over on Brian Edwards media blog site from a Paul Scott. He seems to have insight into some MSD data glitch which occurred earlier this year. Part of the comment reads as follows:

            There is more coming. The IHYA data base grenade may go pop, and it may disappear inside post election negotiations. The entire Citizen data file of the MSD appears to have drifted loose in February.
            Tolley and English jumped on the so called ‘Provider exposure’ on March 31 to cover what seems to be have been a major loss earlier. IT people were called in and an entirely new system was called for.
            The independent review was headed by former Deloitte consultant Murray Jack, who reported conveniently a minor event.
            It looks like Someone with the big key took out the entire February data base,

            I read that to mean there was personal information about [potentially] thousands of people which leaked into the public domain? Someone with more knowledge could perhaps clarify what he is saying.

            http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/

          • Draco T Bastard 4.1.1.2.3
            30 August 2017 at 2:10 pm

            If this really was a leak from National Mp’s, then it is clear corruption and heads will roll.

            Well, they should roll but NZ seems to protect such corruption instead of punishing it. If we didn’t then Paula Bennett would have ended up in jail for the release of two beneficiaries details.

    • Ed 5.1
      30 August 2017 at 8:54 am

      So trustworthy

      • DSpare 5.1.1
        30 August 2017 at 1:27 pm

        Bennett has learned a lot from Key’s technique of spouting garbled nonsequiturs to avoid questions. It is not lying if it doesn’t make any sense!

        “You’re jumping, as Winston Peters is, to a really long bow; that our integrity and our role as ministers in holding confidential information is absolutely pivotal to our roles…I chose to not tell a single soul.”

        Bennett has confirmed she did speak about it with Tolley,

        The inescapable conclusion being that Tolley has no soul.

  6. infused 6
    30 August 2017 at 10:44 am

    It’s all a bit convenient for me. National had little to gain from this imo.

    • Dirk Meatwhistle 6.1
      30 August 2017 at 10:57 am

      Who do you think is mostly likely to have leaked this and why?

      I’m leaning towards an attempted hit by National on Winston that has backfired bigtime

      • Robert Guyton 6.1.1
        30 August 2017 at 11:26 am

        I reckon Collins, in order to demolish English, planning on 3 years in Opposition then back in power as leader.

        • Dirk Meatwhistle 6.1.1.1
          30 August 2017 at 11:37 am

          You think she reckons a Lab/Green/NZFirst government will end up going down the gurgler allowing the hard line “crusher” to reform National and lead National to victory?

          That seems a reasonable assumption

          • Antoine 6.1.1.1.1
            30 August 2017 at 1:37 pm

            > a Lab/Green/NZFirst government will end up going down the gurgler

            That does have the air of plausibility

            A.

            • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.1.1.1
              31 August 2017 at 2:05 am

              L0L0L0L0L !

              Yeah . Right. ‘ Plausibility ‘ .

              L00L!

              About as silly as this .

              No | A Mickey Mouse Cartoon | Disney Shorts – YouTube
              you tube▶ 3:46

    • Muttonbird 6.2
      30 August 2017 at 10:58 am

      Yes, they did. They are blackmailing Peters, imo.

      • Dirk Meatwhistle 6.2.1
        30 August 2017 at 11:02 am

        I’m not sure how you think blackmail works but if National are blackmailing Peters then they’re doing a really bad job of it

        • Robert Guyton 6.2.1.1
          30 August 2017 at 11:24 am

          They’re doing a really bad job of everything!

          • Dirk Meatwhistle 6.2.1.1.1
            30 August 2017 at 11:39 am

            Oh I don’t know, how not to run a hit job is a good example (they should have taken notes on how Labour dealt to the Greens as a how to ;-))

            Wait I have it! National have launched a deliberately bad hit job on Winston, at Winstons behest, to deflect criticism of Winston because instead of talking about Winstons overpayments we’re now talking who leaked and who knew what!

            Its brilliant!

            • Stuart Munro 6.2.1.1.1.1
              30 August 2017 at 11:44 am

              More likely they launched a completely uncoordinated hit on Peters because they’re completely uncoordinated.

            • WILD KATIPO 6.2.1.1.1.2
              31 August 2017 at 2:14 am

              @ Meathead ,

              So when they do find the criminal who leaked it , he/she is the willing fall guy , huh ? Take a hit for the team and all that eh ? Few years in the clink and come out a hero , right?

              Newsflash ! – this isn’t a Broadway production and you sure aint John Wayne.

              You seem to conveniently keep forgetting National party strategists ploy of taking 2-3 % off of NZ First …

              Forrest Gump watergate scandal – YouTube
              you tube▶ 0:34

  7. Treetop 7
    30 August 2017 at 11:43 am

    Will English jump before he is pushed?

    English aint going to survive scrutiny over the Barclay scandal. He is lucky to make it to the election.

    Who is the bright spark who came up with the flush in cards?

    Little
    Turei
    Dunne
    next one is English
    Act or/and Maori party gone.

    Winston sure is the joker.

    • Dirk Meatwhistle 7.1
      30 August 2017 at 11:58 am

      Only Crusher can save National, make her the leader!

      • DSpare 7.1.1
        30 August 2017 at 1:35 pm

        DM
        Well; vote for her at the next National party conference, then. Or do they still not believe in allowing ordinary members a democratic say in the party’s leadership?

        • Dirk Meatwhistle 7.1.1.1
          30 August 2017 at 2:55 pm

          Maybe National should just take a leaf out of Labours book then

          • DSpare 7.1.1.1.1
            30 August 2017 at 5:37 pm

            DiM
            They seem to be your kind of people, so maybe you should renew your party membership and see how that goes.

        • Treetop 7.1.1.2
          31 August 2017 at 10:17 am

          Democratic say on 23 September. English might do a Clark, 2008 on election night. Long way till the next Nat party conference.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.2
        30 August 2017 at 4:06 pm

        Please do that.

  8. DSpare 8
    30 August 2017 at 2:34 pm

    In relation to Peters being warned ahead of time, about National; “trying to take him down”, this (rather long) post by Rolinson on TDB is rather interesting:

    Late last week, highly placed Beltway contacts of mine hit me up to ask if I knew anything about an impending scandal that was supposedly about to hit New Zealand First. I’m rather out of the loop when it comes to NZ First, so I had to confess that I did not.

    I did, however, have the presence of mind to ask my associates just why they thought NZF was about to be in the gun. They bluntly stated that there was about to be a rather ‘large’ scandal concerning National due to come out early the next week, and that National was looking about to find something to ‘defuse’ the situation pre-emptively by putting out a DISTRACTION SCANDAL that would harm their adversaries and minimize the damage to their own side.

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/08/30/wtf-winstons-pension-the-motherofallscandals-and-filthy-politics-in-2017/

    This begs the question; what is the “scandal concerning National due to come out early th[is] week”. The only thing I can think of would be the ongoing erosion of English’s credibility with the Barclay scandal. But perhaps its public airing is on pause till this Peters distraction moves out of the spotlight?

    • tracey 8.1
      30 August 2017 at 4:14 pm

      Or Bennett. Or the highly placed Beltway contact is like so many of the beltway people, love to spread unsubstantuated gossip. Note Farrar and Hooton tweeting with each other yesterday with nothing to substantiate their twittering

      • DSpare 8.1.1
        30 August 2017 at 5:35 pm

        tracey
        The problem is that with such inveterate liars, one rarely has anything but unsubstantiated gossip to go off. I guess my question boils down to; what is so important to distract from, that National would risk burning their bridges with Peters? Some other interesting TDB posts:

        What seemed to stick in the craw of most voters, however, was the Government’s extraordinary hypocrisy. Through their various agents and mouthpieces, they had viciously denounced an Opposition politician who had admitted to committing a series of relatively minor transgressions in her youth. And yet, even as this Opposition politician was being hounded out of Parliament, the governing party was moving heaven and earth to prevent the much more serious transgressions of one of its own from reaching the ears of the public before polling-day.

        https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/08/30/tales-from-a-possible-future-the-mother-of-all-scandals-breaks/

        No one can talk about Paula Bennett.

        Metiria met with MSD to pay back everything she owed. Winston paid as soon as he was told he owed money. No one can talk about Paula Bennett.

        5 things concern me about all of this.

        1 How quickly forgiven Winston will be, while Metiria is still some sort of pariah. It’s not that Winston doesn’t deserves the benefit of the doubt, it’s just that we refused to extend it to Metiria.
        2 How the hell did someone inside the MSD or IRD leak Winston’s details to the media?
        3 It is pretty obvious that Winston has been set up and that it is a political hit job.
        4 If Winston can screw it up, how many other NZers can be caught and burnt by this and why can’t we extend that same level of empathy to Metiria?
        5 No one can talk about Paula Bennett.

        https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/08/28/comparing-winston-metiria-and-paula-bennett-why-why-why/

        “No one can talk about Paula Bennett” link:

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11885404

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