Open mike 02/09/2020

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 2nd, 2020 - 242 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

242 comments on “Open mike 02/09/2020 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Andre 1
    2 September 2020 at 6:49 am

    It's an interesting campaign strategy to whip up fear about a bunch of things that have turned to shit on your own watch. Because you've been actively turning them to shit.

    https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1300543313443991552

    • mauī 1.1
      2 September 2020 at 7:15 am

      It's also an interesting strategy to blame a right wing president on left aligned protests/riots in democrat led cities. But when you don't have a campaign.. you gotta campaign on something I spose.

      • Andre 1.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 7:29 am

        Dunno how protesting about unarmed people getting murdered by police being grossly over-reactive to the situation is a left thing, but anyhoo. Dunno why you think encouraging armed thugs from out of town to go in to mix it up in protests that have nothing to do with them is a good thing, but it looks like since the tangelo turdgoblin encourages it you seem to feel the need to defend it. Hey, you do you.

        As far as a campaign message goes, Biden is quite clear: violence, looting, property damage etc are not protest and are not OK.

        https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-2020-trump-blake_n_5f4d1339c5b6cf66b2bb2827

        • Morepork 1.1.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 9:38 am

          You are quite correct about Biden; he has been very clear to condemn the violence. However Maui's point in his first sentence stands. In this piece (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/16/maybe-trump-shouldnt-save-democrat-run-cities-besieged-by-violence/) Marc Thiessen talks about the "spineless response of these local Democratic leaders to violent protests in their cities", and how "many of America’s cities are conducting social experiments in lawlessness, showing the rest of the country what happens when local leaders join calls to “defund the police” and cower in the face of violence." Legitimate protest against racism and just plain thuggish policing is one thing; property damage and outright violence conducted by the likes of antifa is another thing altogether.

          • Andre 1.1.1.1.1
            2 September 2020 at 9:54 am

            If you're trying to make a serious point, you might want a better cite than a long-term Repug paid liar.

            Marc Alexander Thiessen (born January 13, 1967) is an American author, political appointee, and weekly columnist for The Washington Post. Thiessen served as a speechwriter for United States President George W. Bush from 2004 to 2009 and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld from 2001 to 2006.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Thiessen

            In this particular case, the quotes you've picked from Thiessen's piece merely make vague insinuations and fail to point to any specific cities, people, actions or incidents. Which makes it just a general smear job, not an actual argument in good faith amenable to reasoned rebuttal.

            • Morepork 1.1.1.1.1.1
              2 September 2020 at 10:09 am

              Clearly you don't like the messenger, but it seems you actually haven't read the message.

              “the quotes you’ve picked from Thiessen's piece merely make vague insinuations and fail to point to any specific cities, people, actions or incidents.”

              https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/07/tear-gas-deployed-as-federal-officers-disperse-protesters-overnight-in-downtown-portland.html

              https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/07/15/trump_democrat_mayors_running_out_of_control_cities_that_are_like_war_zones.html

              That's just the first paragraph. The article is replete with specific examples of "cities, people, actions or incidents".

              • Andre …
                2 September 2020 at 10:22 am

                Those aren't from Thiessen's piece.

                The first piece from The Oregonian doesn't cover any failings of Portland's or Oregon's leadership, but is about the heavy-handed actions from uninvited federal agents. That makes it much better support for the argument that the Mango Mussolini is deliberately trying to incite violence.

                As for your second link – you're trying to suggest Deranged Dotard making self-serving mouth noises bears any connection whatsoever to reality? Seriously? After more than four years of it being very well documented that any assertion he makes is much more likely to be a lie than truth?

                https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump

                • Morepork …
                  2 September 2020 at 10:31 am

                  "Those aren't from Thiessen's piece."

                  Yes, they are! They are links taken directly from his article that reference "specific cities, people, actions or incidents”.

                  And Thiessen makes this point:

                  “In New York City, shootings during one week in June were up 358 percent over the previous year, while the number of police retirements has skyrocketed 411 percent — a vote of no confidence in the city’s left-wing leadership. In Atlanta, murders are up 86 percent. In Minneapolis, shootings are up 47 percent. In Philadelphia, shootings involving children are up 43 percent, and 96 percent of the victims are black. In Chicago, 106 people were shot during a single weekend in June, 14 of them fatally, while this past weekend, 64 people were shot, and 11 died. All these cities are run by Democrats.”

                  And then he links directly to leadership:

                  “Then there is the spineless response of these local Democratic leaders to violent protests in their cities. Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan called the Capitol Hill Occupied Protest, which took over several city blocks and a park, a “block party” and compared it to the “summer of love” — only to see multiple assaults and two murders take place in the police-free zone she permitted to exist for nearly a month. In Portland, Ore. — a hotbed of antifa violence — mayhem has raged for nearly two months as violent protesters have set more than 100 fires, looted business and done millions of dollars in property damage to local businesses. Rioters have attacked police with rocks, glass bottles, soup cans, frozen water bottles, bricks and fireworks, according to court documents filed by police. The mayor seems unable or unwilling to quell the violence.”

                  These are not ‘vague insinuations’. They are accusations of lax governance, supported by specific examples.

                  • Andre …
                    2 September 2020 at 10:48 am

                    Were you born stupid or did you get someone to hit you on the head to make you that way?

                    Those links were not Thiessen's words that you quoted. Nor do they support the argument Thiessen is apparently trying to make.

                    It's not that I don't like Thiessen. It's that he has a very long history of lying in order to deceive people into supporting Repugs. And zero history of producing reasoned principled argument backed by reasonable interpretation of facts and evidence. It's a total waste of time and limited page views reading him, unless you feel a need to track what lies are currently being spewed. That he has cited an article showing the thuggery of federal agents acting outside of any reasonable interpretation of their jurisdiction sent in by by a lawless thuggish president, to try to gaslight that Democrats are somehow responsible for the violence, is just more evidence of Thiessen's attempted deceptivenesss.

                    • Morepork …
                      2 September 2020 at 10:59 am

                      Hold on. Originally you claimed “Those aren’t from Thiessen’s piece”, yet they were.

                      Now your claiming “Those links were not Thiessen's words that you quoted” but I never claimed they were ‘Thiessens words’. If you had read the article you would see that they are links taken directly from his article to support his opinion.

                      " Nor do they support the argument Thiessen is apparently trying to make. "
                      Yes, they do. They draw a credible link between the words and actions of Democrat leaders and violent demonstrations in their cities.

                      I stand by my response to you earlier. You didn’t bother to read the message because you don’t like the messenger.

                  • Gabby …
                    2 September 2020 at 4:14 pm

                    Two murders in over a month sounds kind of low. They might be better off without police.

                    • Morepork …
                      2 September 2020 at 4:22 pm

                      I very much doubt it. Although there seems to be some Democratic politicians who are prepared to try that as a social experiment,

                    • Gabby …
                      2 September 2020 at 5:09 pm

                      You might be mistaken about what defunding means, or you might be deliberately misunderstanding.

                • Morepork …
                  2 September 2020 at 10:47 am

                  BTW, if you're triggered by Thiessen, you might prefer Jonathan Turley (https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/500605-antifa-and-anarchists-have-hijacked-floyd-protests-but-left-wont-admit-it):

                  " Yet despite its violent history, some Democratic leaders have been enablers or outright supporters of the antifa movement…"

                  " Other Democratic leaders have been much more direct in their support, including the former deputy chair of the Democratic Party, Representative Keith Ellison. Although Germany has banned an antifa website, Ellison posed with the antifa handbook to show support at a Minneapolis bookshop and said it would “strike fear in the heart” of Trump. "

                • greywarshark …
                  2 September 2020 at 11:27 am

                  Mango Mussolini! Andre is that your own work? Brilliant.

          • mauī 1.1.1.1.2
            2 September 2020 at 11:58 am

            Absolutely correct. Thank you Morepork.

          • McFlock 1.1.1.1.3
            2 September 2020 at 2:42 pm

            I guess if property damage is totally unacceptable, maybe the cops and govt should have instigated some changes in their behaviour when Colin Kaepernick took a knee. But that didn't work, so here we are.

            • Morepork 1.1.1.1.3.1
              2 September 2020 at 3:34 pm

              Violence and property damage is not ok. There are plenty of other ways to demonstrate against happened to Trayvon Martin.

              • McFlock …
                2 September 2020 at 4:42 pm

                They were tried, and failed.

                Property damage (the violence mostly comes from the cops) seems to be having some effect.

                Because the cops recklessly (at best) killing people is not ok, either. If a donut store has to be trashed before murderers in uniform are charged, I'm not going to get worked up over the vandalism.

                • Morepork …
                  2 September 2020 at 5:28 pm

                  The violence I'm referring to is coming from some within the protestors. The only effect that is having is to harm innocent individuals, and place the police and citizenry at even greater risk.

                  • McFlock …
                    2 September 2020 at 5:30 pm

                    Yes, you're very careful to avoid referring to violence committed by police or right wing mobs with guns.

                    • Morepork …
                      2 September 2020 at 5:45 pm

                      That hasn't been the subject of discussion. I'm happy to oblige if you wish.

                    • McFlock …
                      2 September 2020 at 8:49 pm

                      It was a subject being discussed, and one that you carefully ignored. But there won't be anything informative or particularly believable about any belated platitudes you might make, so don't bother.

                    • Morepork …
                      2 September 2020 at 9:58 pm

                      " It was a subject being discussed, "

                      Not in this thread. This convo started with https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1747334. The comment referred to " left aligned protests/riots in democrat led cities. " Not sure what you've been reading.

                    • McFlock …
                      2 September 2020 at 11:56 pm

                      introduced at comment 1.1.1. Referred to by myself and others from there.

                      So very much a part of this thread.

                      Even you had to tangentially refer to "thuggish policing" before quickly changing the topic back to a tone argument.

                    • Morepork …
                      3 September 2020 at 12:31 pm

                      You made no reference to violence by cops until https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1747560, and no refernce to right wing violence until https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1747577.

                      You came late to the conversation and didn't read back. Possibly why you’ve added nothing of value.

                      [Genuine debate assumes good faith and I’m starting to doubt you’re interested in this, as you don’t appear to comment in good faith. You can go back to comment 1.1.1, which is a direct reply to comment 1.1, which is where “[t]his convo started” according to you, and read it back for yourself and see for yourself that McFlock was correct. In addition, there is no hierarchy or ownership as such in and of discussion threads based on the timing at which a commenter joins in; what matters is that people engage on-topic and with respect, which you failed to do with your snide comment. If you continue your apparent disinterest in genuine debate based on good faith, you can read this site’s Policy about what might happen next. As a newcomer to this site, I strongly suggest you read the Policy before commenting again – Incognito]

                    • Incognito []
                      3 September 2020 at 1:16 pm

                      See my Moderation note @ 12:31 PM.

                • Morepork …
                  5 September 2020 at 9:29 am

                  " If a donut store has to be trashed before murderers in uniform are charged, I'm not going to get worked up over the vandalism. "

                  Unless and until it was your donut shop, I suspect. Violent protest that harms innocent people and/or their property is never ok. It is a shift towards anarchy, and solves nothing.

                  • McFlock …
                    5 September 2020 at 3:01 pm

                    Organised labour throughout the world (especially coal miners in early 20C USA) suggest that you're full of crap.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 5:06 pm

                      Organised labour throughout the world has been full of thugs and corrupt practice. We only have to look over the Tasman. “According to evidence before the royal commission, the CFMEU has clear links to organised crime.”https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/the-corruption-of-organised-labour-20141009-11bxr8. Doesn’t make it right.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 5:25 pm

                      …and it doesn;t mean it works. Perhaps you've acknowledged that by digging out a 100+ years dispute that was not resolved by violent thuggery (although that was certainly a part of some organised labour activities).

                    • McFlock …
                      5 September 2020 at 8:07 pm

                      So now organised crime is relevant to "violent protest" (as if the criminals didn't also get paid by the employers), but the police thuggery and murders that sparked the BLM protests aren't part of the thread. lol

                      Oh, and "especially" does not mean "restricted to".

                      Feel free to offer a relevant comment.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:00 pm
                      1. Organised 'labour'. That's the term you used.

                      2. 'The police' are not organised crime.

                      3. Events in the coal industry 100 years ago are not relevant to what is happening today. And violent protest did not solve those problems.

                      Educate yourself.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:28 pm

                      1: I talked about organised labour, you talked about organised crime.

                      2: I didn't say they were. Some might, but I did not.

                      3: because you missed it the first time, I'll put it in italics. "Especially" does not mean "restricted to".

                      Have another go at saying something relevant to what I actually wrote.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:36 pm
                      1. No, I talked about organised labour. You mentioned organised crime in your previous post.
                      1. I didn't say you did. What you did was conflate organised crime with the police.
                      2. Because you seem to think disputes in the coal mining industry 100 years ago are somehow relevant, at least educate yourself about how those disputes were settled. Certainly not by violenece and rioting.

                      [You have been on the Moderators’ radar and have already received a couple of warnings. You conflated “organised labour” and “organised crime” in your comment: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1748423 at 5:06 PM. You are contradicting and confusing yourself, at best, or gaslighting and being disingenuous, at worst. Lift your game – incognito]

                    • Incognito []
                      5 September 2020 at 9:57 pm

                      See my Moderation note @ 9:36 PM.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 September 2020 at 10:06 pm

                      1: link to you introducing oraganised crime into the thread not 5 hours ago.

                      2: Nope. That's your stupidity writing cheques that your reading comprehension can't cash.

                      3: Again, you opened the door to it with the suggestion that property damage is "never ok" and "achieves nothing". Organised labour throughout the world did not make achievements by being lickspittles.

                      Unless you can actually write a comment relevant to my previous responses, I suspect we're done here.

                      edit: took so bloody long to write a response to all the foolishness that Incognito made a similar point, I might go and do something productive instead.

                    • Morepork …
                      6 September 2020 at 10:12 am

                      This is my words.

                      "This is someone elses words, in this case a Royal Commission into organised LABOUR"

                      I'm sensing you're a waste of time.

                    • McFlock …
                      6 September 2020 at 3:40 pm

                      You are literally incapable of even quoting yourself.

                      Does the concept of “cut and paste” hurt your tiny tory bigot mind? Or does mummy usually help you with the typing?

                    • McFlock …
                      6 September 2020 at 4:19 pm

                      OH! Sorry, your stupid was momentarily inscrutable! Do you think that if you include a quote in your comment, you're not actually introducing the contents of that quote into the thread? That maybe it doesn't exist at all? Have you cast into existence some new principle of written communication?

                      What is your major malfunction, numbnuts? Didn't Mommy and Daddy show you enough attention, when you were a child?!

                    • Morepork …
                      6 September 2020 at 5:57 pm

                      " Do you think that if you include a quote in your comment, you're not actually introducing the contents of that quote into the thread? "

                      The contents of that quote were about organised labour. They were in direct response to your comment https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-02-09-2020/#comment-1748393. I made no comment about organised crime at all. My comment opened with the words ‘organised labour’, and was pointing you to a Royal Commission on organised LABOUR, that happened to show what a corrupt bunch they can be. You eityher have a very low IQ approach to conversation, or you’re just trolling for the sake of an argument. Either way, you’re a waste of time.

                      EDIT: “OH! Sorry, your stupid was momentarily inscrutable! ”
                      Low IQ it is.

                      [This is your words.

                      … the CFMEU has clear links to organised crime. [my italics]

                      I’m sensing you’re wasting our time.

                      I’m sensing that you’re a disingenuous commenter who does not own their own words.

                      I’m sensing that you’re not going to lift your game.

                      I’m sensing that you’re banned until 1 November.

                      Incognito]

                    • Incognito []
                      6 September 2020 at 7:56 pm

                      See my Moderation note @ 5:57 PM.

                    • McFlock …
                      6 September 2020 at 6:25 pm

                      I made no comment about organised crime at all.

                      The moderator disagrees with you.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    6 September 2020 at 4:16 pm

                    And yes I am outraged at the killing of George Floyd.

                    Well, you see, I don't believe you. You always have a "But…" in there.

                    We don’t repay or resolve injustice by punishing innocents, but by holding the perpetrators accountable.

                    It sounds almost plausible – if you devoted any energy at all to going after those perpetrators – the murdering cops, in case you've forgotten.

                    Because from what you've had to say so far you just want the protests to stop. You're more concerned with that, than justice for Floyd or reform of the US police to prevent reoccurrences.

                    The rule of law and the value of human life go hand in hand,

                    ​​​​​​​Not if you're black in America they don't.

          • Gabby 1.1.1.1.4
            2 September 2020 at 4:10 pm

            After all, property is sacrosanct while lives are expendable.

            • Morepork 1.1.1.1.4.1
              2 September 2020 at 4:19 pm

              It's not either or. I value life far above property. I just don't agree with looting and violence to demonstrate against loss of life.

              • McFlock …
                2 September 2020 at 4:43 pm

                Taking a knee didn't fucking work.

                • Morepork …
                  2 September 2020 at 5:29 pm

                  Nor will looting and violence. It is feeding Trump and dividing America even more, if that is possible.

                    • Morepork …
                      2 September 2020 at 5:44 pm

                      A proposal (see the correction at the foot of the article) to disband the city's police force is an achievement? How do you measure 'achievement'?

                    • McFlock …
                      2 September 2020 at 8:57 pm

                      lol A proposal that was passed a few weeks later.

                      And the state legislature also made some significant changes to go to the governor.

                      So organisational change progressed by confrontational protests, not by politely taking a knee.

                    • Morepork …
                      2 September 2020 at 9:56 pm

                      Are you seriously suggesting that a social experiment that hasn’t even been passed by voters has actually achieved anything? This is more likely to be an absolute disaster, but then neither of us know yet.

                      (Note – FYI the article concludes “Despite unanimous support Friday, the amendment faces a number of bureaucratic obstacles before voters can vote on it in November.” November. So it actually hasn’t ‘achieved’ a damn thing.)

                    • McFlock …
                      3 September 2020 at 12:18 am

                      Regardless of whether you think it will be a disaster, even placing the concept in front of the electorate is more progress on the issue than taking a knee ever got.

                      Because although many of the folks outraged by the current protests were also outraged by athletes daring to take a knee, in the end the athletes could be minimised and ignored. They tried it your way. They didn't even get the idea put before the city council, let alone the electorate.

                    • Morepork …
                      3 September 2020 at 12:26 pm

                      "…even placing the concept in front of the electorate is more progress on the issue than taking a knee ever got."

                      It hasn't 'achieved' anything. The vote is yet to take place, and there is absolutely no guarantee an affirmative vote will lead to any positive change. At least 'taking a knee' has raised awareness.

                    • McFlock …
                      3 September 2020 at 2:29 pm

                      lol

                      So "raising awareness" is more of an achievement than getting political action from a city council?

                      Oh, and the protests have "raised awareness", too.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:23 am

                      " So "raising awareness" is more of an achievement than getting political action from a city council? "

                      Yes, it is. The policy action means nothing until it is affirmed by popular vote. Further, even if passed, the policy has achieved nothing until it actually produces favourable results. I would venture that the peaceful protests, which have had a positive impact across the planet, have achieved far more for the cause than opportunist nutcases rioting and looting.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 September 2020 at 2:58 pm

                      Oh, you're back, and still full of shit.

                      "Raising awareness" is literally the least that can happen while still being a theoretical change from the status quo.

                      Working through the process of legislative change is still closer to achieving change than "raising awareness" even if it is eventually unsuccessful in this instance.

                      "Awareness" frequently changes nothing.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:05 pm

                      " Working through the process of legislative change is still closer to achieving change than "raising awareness" even if it is eventually unsuccessful in this instance. "

                      Rubbish. Raising awareness is here and now. Working through legislative change (in this case) leads to an as yet undermined vote by electors on what is at best a highly dubious policy.

                      You seem happy to sit back and wait for legislation that defies human nature. Raising awareness brings far more immediate public pressure to bear on an issue that needs addressing now.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:22 pm

                      lol so now removing a corrupt system developed to oppress people and replacing it with a less oppressive system of social support and public safety is "against human nature"?

                      "Raising awareness" means people know about something. Legislative change, especially via referendum, means people know about it and have the power to do something about it.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:38 pm

                      "lol so now removing a corrupt system developed to oppress people and replacing it with a less oppressive system of social support and public safety is "against human nature"?"

                      It's a lala land proposal.

                      ""Raising awareness" means people know about something. Legislative change, especially via referendum, means people know about it and have the power to do something about it."

                      Meh. Youre referring to change that is basically at this point in time nothing more than a silly political idea. Come back when it's passed into law and been enacted and implemented for a few years. You know, when it’s actually had a chance to achieve anything.

                    • McFlock …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:49 pm

                      So to recap, you regard "raising awareness" as some modicum of achievement.

                      But if actions raise a level of awareness that creates legislative action followed by a law-changing referendum and implementation of that law change, you'll want to wait a few years to see if it achieved anything.

                      Seems legit, lolsarc

                    • Morepork …
                      6 September 2020 at 10:22 am

                      " you regard "raising awareness" as some modicum of achievement. "

                      In the case of peaceful protest. most definitely. Athletes taking a knee have been viewed by tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions, of people across the planet.

                      In the UK alone, the viewer numbers for the resumption of the EPL (where players ‘took the knee’ and wore “Black Live Matter” on their jerseys) were staggering. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/english-premier-league-players-knee-season-resumes-200618093742276.html

                      "But if actions raise a level of awareness that creates legislative action followed by a law-changing referendum and implementation of that law change, you'll want to wait a few years to see if it achieved anything. "

                      There has been no law change, and there is no guarantee there will be. And even if there is, the result is a flaky social experiment that defies human nature.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    2 September 2020 at 6:16 pm

                    How do you measure 'achievement'?

                    A policy that creates a sensible decrease in deaths like Breonna Taylor's, and the end of qualified privilege.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    3 September 2020 at 5:25 pm

                    Voting is neither here nor there in extremis – and when police are breaking into peoples homes and shooting them – extrajudicial killings in fact – a democracy relies on sensible decisions from incumbents to de-escalate the potential for violence. Legality comes later.

                    No chance of that from Trump of course – civil unrest is his main hope of re-election. But quite a few administrations across the US have successfully defused the issue.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 9:33 am

                      " a democracy relies on sensible decisions from incumbents to de-escalate the potential for violence. "

                      Yes, I agree. However that shouldn't mean sacrificing the rule of law. We can be outraged by the killing of George Floyd and take meaningful action without condoning violence and looting.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    5 September 2020 at 5:29 pm

                    that shouldn't mean sacrificing the rule of law

                    The rule of law is not more sacrosanct than the lives of innocent citizens routinely extrajudicially killed in the US – except of course to you and those like you.

                    We can be outraged by the killing of George Floyd and take meaningful action without condoning violence and looting.

                    It's funny, but you don't give the impression of being outraged at the killings at all.

                    It's pretty simple accounting actually: violence and looting bad, murder by police officers very much worse. It's not rational to make the resolution of the major issue conditional on the minor one. But of course, that's not your object.

                    • Morepork …
                      5 September 2020 at 5:38 pm

                      The rule of law and the value of human life go hand in hand, in my view.

                      And yes I am outraged at the killing of George Floyd. But two wrongs don't make a right. We don’t repay or resolve injustice by punishing innocents, but by holding the perpetrators accountable.

              • greywarshark …
                5 September 2020 at 8:27 pm

                Morepork You are virtue signalling aren't you? Making proud statements about your high beliefs is insulting to the rest of us I think. As if we don't understand standards and good civil behaviour. However the talk is about cruel regimes and protest against them, which is something you appear to have trouble understanding is reality.

        • Morepork 1.1.2.1
          2 September 2020 at 1:34 pm

          To be consistent with your approach, I should immediately discount your source as being from a news source with a far left bias. But I'll resist.

          • Andre 1.1.2.1.1
            2 September 2020 at 2:02 pm

            The difference is Amanda Marcotte doesn't have a long long history of shameless partisan lying, covers actual facts and evidence, and her links go to sources that are actually relevant and support her argument.

            • Morepork 1.1.2.1.1.1
              2 September 2020 at 3:29 pm

              "… doesn't have a long long history of shameless partisan lying, "

              There you go again. Jonathan Turley doesn't either. But you didn’t name him in response to my link, you just criticised the news source he was writing in. Shallow as.

              You also haven’t posted any evidence that Marc Theissen does, either. I realise you don’t like the guy, but hell that doesn't make him wrong.

              • joe90 …
                2 September 2020 at 5:50 pm

                Jonathan Turley doesn't either.

                You're a fan of a partisan hack and and an evil POS?

                Shallow.

                Jonathan Turley, a law professor who appeared as a Republican witness in Wednesday’s impeachment hearings, made a number of claims that directly contradicted his previous statements and testimony.

                On Wednesday, Turley argued there was no proof that President Donald Trump broke a specific law related to the Ukraine scandal and therefore should not be impeached.

                But in 1998, Turley made the opposite case, telling Congress during former President Bill Clinton’s impeachment hearings that Clinton’s actions didn’t need to violate any laws in order to be impeachable conduct.

                “While there’s a high bar for what constitutes grounds for impeachment, an offence does not have to be indictable,” he wrote in a 2014 op-ed for The Washington Post.

                https://www.businessinsider.com.au/republican-witness-jonathan-turley-contradicted-impeachment-testimony-2019-12?r=US&IR=T

                In “Courting Disaster: How the C.I.A. Kept America Safe and How Barack Obama Is Inviting the Next Attack,” Mr. Thiessen, a practicing Roman Catholic, says that waterboarding suspected terrorists was not only useful and desirable, but permitted by the teachings of the Catholic Church.

                https://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/27/us/27beliefs.html

                • Morepork …
                  2 September 2020 at 6:20 pm

                  So you don’t like the guy's opinion on waterboarding, but you have no evidence that he has "a long long history of shameless partisan lying". That's good.

                  Meanwhile, Thurley is far from partisan. He "called for criminal prosecution of Bush administration officials for war crimes, including torture", and " He has written extensively in opposition to the death penalty, noting, "Human error remains a principal cause of botched executions… eventually society will be forced to deal directly with a fundamental moral question: Has death itself become the intolerable element of the death penalty?" and " Turley also has testified in Congress against President Bush's warrantless domestic surveillance program and was lead counsel in a case challenging it." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Turley

                • greywarshark …
                  5 September 2020 at 8:49 pm

                  Joe 90 This Morepork seems to be using the right wing ploys and rationalisations just as Greg Larsen demonstrated that you put up earlier!

      • millsy 1.1.3
        2 September 2020 at 10:43 am

        A right wing president who refuses to condemn the police execution of unarmed and innocent black men, and holds police officers up in high regard to the point that they are allowed to do anything they like and they will not be sanctioned or punished.

        • greywarshark 1.1.3.1
          3 September 2020 at 1:51 pm

          All these from 1, about 50 comments, and all connected to the USA. It's a big world out there. What about putting another country under the microscope, India for instance that seems under Modi to be going for a Muslim clear-out and possibly Christian too. What do Indians who come to this country think about other religions?

          Murica is a distraction for us and right here we have got distracted with attacks on commenters here, and lots of acrimony. What's the point of enabling this farcical discussion purporting to be intelligent? Why can't commenters just leave drops of dirty water to dry up in the sunlight and disappear?

  2. tc 2
    2 September 2020 at 7:06 am

    Odious Polly watch: Tony the Abbott's at it again on the Oz taxpayer.

    Suggesting we leave the old to it and the virus run free. Perfect candidate for Boris to endorse for the trough. It’s in the guardian, I’d link but not on this device, apologies.

    • RedBaronCV 2.1
      2 September 2020 at 11:54 am

      Yes Tony has had a major "kill granny to save the economy" moment. I think he is a very devout conservative catholic – funny the ideas that can co exist. Other than that I'm sure a large chunk of Australia will be delighted to palm him off on Boris.

      • woodart 2.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 1:06 pm

        good point redbaron. would like to see him reconcile his right-to-life catholism with letting granny die.

        • In Vino 2.1.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 6:01 pm

          Oh Come on-

          It's only the poor little unborn zygotes that are sacred human life. Once you are actually born, your rights diminish to the point that adults can be cannon fodder in wartime, etc.

  3. Descendant Of Smith 3
    2 September 2020 at 7:10 am

    Interesting thoughts about where we are at present. Much of this resonates. It's why I'd rather see power sharing with Maori (60 seats each in parliament), work and leisure shared more evenly – 30 or less working hour week with work spread amongst more of the population, copyright periods reduced so more things entered the commons earlier. More leisure, more equality – time for people to pursue and experience more than economic growth.

    https://eand.co/the-story-eea04d97062b

    "How did we get here? Every age has a paradigm of human organization. A set of defining principles and beliefs about what life is for. In the past, you can think of things like tribalism, feudalism, mercantilism, and so on. What’s our paradigm? Why isn’t it working?

    Every paradigm’s end, purpose, defines it. We organize — whether countries, companies, societies, days, projects, investments — for just one sole end: maximizing income. Whether it’s called GDP, profits, shareholder value, all are more or less different words for the same imperative: the most income over the smallest increment of time an organization can produce. This overarching social goal of maximizing income trickles down into maximizing incomes for corporations and firms and banks and households so on.

    Today’s paradigm of human organization — which is a relic of the industrial age — is economic. Our lives — in fact, all life on the planet, in fact, all life in the universe, because life on this planet is the only life that we know of anywhere in existence — are thus oriented around the pursuit of a single end: maximizing short-term income. Maximizing immediate financial income is the sole purpose of all the life that we know of, which all the life that there is."

    • Dennis Frank 3.1
      2 September 2020 at 7:54 am

      What’s our paradigm? Why isn’t it working?

      Resilience & sustainability. Because Labour & National still refuse to shift to it.

      copyright periods reduced so more things entered the commons earlier

      Damn right. Sharing & caring prioritised over private profit for long enough to retilt the balance societally.

      More leisure, more equality

      We were promised that throughout the 1960s, in endless media stories, social analysis, futurism, until a total consensus of expectation prevailed.

      Then we were betrayed by Labour & National. In retrospect, it seems evident that both wings of the establishment were treating the people as suckers. It was a con.

      • Descendant Of Smith 3.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 8:06 am

        Yeah it is like promising increased productivity leads to better wages – hope it doesn't.

        Increased productivity means less people to do the job.You lay off those people unless you can increase sales/market share.

        Your productivity means you can reduce your competition through selling at a lower cost. They lose their jobs. Less people to do the job means there is a pool of people unemployed who can do the job. A pool of unemployed who can do the job means you can replace errant workers as a workforce is available.

        Productivity improvements can only result in less pay. Freezing works is a classic example.

        • Pat 3.1.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 8:10 am

          "Productivity improvements can only result in less pay."

          …or less hours devoted to production, how the benefits of increased productivity are distributed is the key.

          Keynes posited that by now the working week would be 15 hours

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1
            2 September 2020 at 3:02 pm

            …or less hours devoted to production, how the benefits of increased productivity are distributed is the key.

            QFT

            Higher productivity gives us choices that we didn't have before. We could all work less and have more leisure, we could have better education or we could have more R&D. There are, of course, even more choices.

            Those choices were taken away from us so that the rich could get richer.

            • Pat 3.1.1.1.1.1
              2 September 2020 at 3:20 pm

              in simple terms yes…we have gifted the benefits of increased productivity to the wealthy so they can disproportionately use the real resources…but the choice has been with us since the advent of (modern) democracy, that we fail to grasp it is on us, though Im happy to concede that the vested interests devote their energies to making sure we dont believe we can…and im still not convinced we will manage it any better if we did realise our power.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                2 September 2020 at 4:05 pm

                but the choice has been with us since the advent of (modern) democracy

                Modern Representative Democracy was designed to prevent democracy. The new rich at the end of the English Revolution didn't want democracy and the same was true after the American Revolution (Pols 202). What we got was a compromise that left the power in the hands of a few that were controlled by the rich.

                As I say, an actual democracy is, by default, communist as its controlled by the people.

                • Pat …
                  2 September 2020 at 4:20 pm

                  There are many impediments to enacting the desires of the majority but in a country such as NZ (possibly due to its size and global (in)significance) there are no real barriers to electing a policy platform that is opposed to the capitalist narrative…we have indeed done so before.

                  When the 4th Labour Gov (and Treasury) duped the NZ electorate how did we react?…did we elect New Labour or the Alliance when the opportunity arose?….no, we elected Douglas in female form.

                  Its on us.

                  • Peter 1 …
                    2 September 2020 at 5:16 pm

                    You mite have, It's one of the reason I no longer vote Labour

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    2 September 2020 at 6:13 pm

                    The 4th National government got voted in because

                    1. They implied that they would undo the Douglass reforms
                    2. FPP which ensures that only two parties can exist and that one or the other must win

                    The problem now is that, even if we do show that we want something different, the government goes on with the 1980s reforms.

                    We actually need a majority Green government but most people are still wedded to either National or Labour. That will start changing soon as the Baby Boomers die off.

                    • Pat …
                      2 September 2020 at 6:27 pm

                      Disagree… we do not show we desire different by the simple fact we continue to vote for them…there have been alternatives not taken for the past 4 decades

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      2 September 2020 at 6:49 pm

                      And many of those alternative were voted for at the time but FPP prevented them from being in government. People who voted for them learned their lesson – don't vote for the under-dog. Even now with MMP people still hold onto that lesson.

                      MMP is also a problem. I will be voting for the Labour candidate in my electorate. I don't want to but having him in is better than having the National candidate.

                      And that logic has applied across the last four decades and more as FPP forces a vote for the lesser evil.

                      Which, again, is why everyone who wants a better democracy should be voting Green this election as they're looking to change the voting system to preferential.

                      EDIT:
                      And don’t forget that we’ve been educated to believe that we need rich people.

                    • Pat …
                      2 September 2020 at 7:00 pm

                      "….though Im happy to concede that the vested interests devote their energies to making sure we dont believe we can"

                      Again…its on us….we get the government we deserve

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    2 September 2020 at 6:19 pm

                    Its on us.

                    Nope. The scoundrels who created our veiled oligarchy don't wiggle free quite so easily.

                    • Pat …
                      2 September 2020 at 6:25 pm

                      keep telling yourself that….the fact remains the majority of voters have supported the status quo….given whats in front of us that may (MAY) change…Im not going to hold my breath

                • In Vino …
                  2 September 2020 at 6:44 pm

                  Thanks Pat and Draco best sequence of comments in a long time. It needs to be repeated, because so many seem ignorant of it now. (Especially guys like Morepork, who somehow reminds me of someone I have read before on this site..)

                  I started secondary teaching in 1970. Alvin Toffler's Future Shock became the rage. We were told that in the future everyone would work shorter hours, and students needed to be educated to cope with much more leisure time. One period a week was devoted to 'Clubs' in the early-mid 80s. I remember taking groups for things like Chess, Cross-country, and the new sport of BMX about which I knew nothing.

                  How naive we were! If only I could have had the prescience (and cynicism) to have said at the time:

                  "No! This is all wrong! What we will in fact have is low wages, unemployment so that the poor are forced to accept shit wages; those who take such work will have less leisure time, not more, because they will have to take at least two jobs because of low pay, or even 3 because the 40-hour week would be gone, and 'flexibility' of hours would be their bane; and a large pool of unofficially unemployed underclass would emerge, not well enough off to indulge in the nice activities we were teaching them.

                  With hindsight, it was a farce. But it has taught me one thing: Never believe people who say we have to predict the future and teach students to be ready for it. That is Bullshit.

                  All we can prepare kids for is the likely prospect that the Rich will have tilted the playing field, and unless you are the children of the Rich, you will be in a society where social mobility will be ever-diminishing, so bad luck, dear students.

                  • Pat …
                    2 September 2020 at 7:06 pm

                    If there is one positive thing the internet could do its providing the information for the masses to decode the BS….sadly its also available to the vested interests and f**k, dont they make use of it.

                    The academics, who should have been the backstop were undermined years ago

                    • In Vino …
                      2 September 2020 at 7:42 pm

                      Yep. By the way, have you seen the latest reality show?

                      Edit – By the way, it was accepted by most forward-looking teachers back then that the best gift we could give our students was to teach them to have good Bullshit-Detectors.

                      We tried…

                    • greywarshark …
                      2 September 2020 at 8:05 pm

                      'Again…its on us….we get the government we deserve'

                      The discussion above has just shown us that we don't understand what we are voting for, we haven't been given the educational background to enable us to analyse, use our imagination. How can we then get the government 'we deserve'.

                      We don't understand how to form one, and how to plan for provision of citizen needs Our parents had no future planning ideas or philosophies to pass on, the schools didn't, the universities might have tried in say their Development studies. None of us have been fitted to know what to learn and then what to aim for, and the government we have is the default one from Roger Douglas's crony capitalism cult members.

                      Our leaders had 50 years after the end of WW2 to make a better world, and get us ready to think our way to a better democracy and face up to the early recognised environmental problems. But we didn't make it top priority.

                      I did some Social Policy and started on the thinking path. But by that time the government was turning away from representing people who wanted to be socially mobile and instead went hob-knobbing with the wealthy, skilled at the seagull tactics of whipping away our lives while they were in our hands on their way to providing for our future. All gone, nearly.

                      So don't be too judgmental, not for long, and praise those still trying, in a practical way. The idealists determined to realise their dreams of the 1970s by repeating the slogans of that time are wasting our time. Sit in your rocking chairs and offer some wisdom from time to time, the hewers of civilisation have to go further and wider to make any way safe for those wishing to be warm humans flourishing together with room for argument and disagreement, finally settled without insisting on the dictatorship of consensus. A future satisfactory, lived simply using all our skills, together. And it may be separate from the tech cities – the town and country thing in a different paradigm.

                    • Pat …
                      2 September 2020 at 8:30 pm

                      @ Greywarshark

                      It is evident too many of us dont understand what we vote for…..thats what political parties are supposed to make clear.

                      We can blame 'education' or the lack of if you wish but the purpose of education I have always believed is to instruct us how to learn for ourselves….and even so it dosnt require formal education to develop ethics.

                      It is after all relatively simple….how can so few have far more than they could ever possibly use when so many have nothing?

                  • Pat …
                    2 September 2020 at 7:47 pm

                    Unlikely….reality (?) shows are not to my taste

  4. Robert Guyton 4
    2 September 2020 at 7:40 am

    "If that Government had been in charge now [during Covid-19], we’d have collateral damage of 3000 or 4000 elderly folk dead."

    Mike Coleman, a red-zoned Anglican priest and school counsellor.

    "As a New Zealander I’d backpacked around the world. You see some really corrupt governments, and I don’t think our government was corrupt in any sense, but you come home and go, “I’m in New Zealand. If something happens, they’re going to back me.” And lots of times, governments do.

    But in this case, they got it seriously wrong."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/122558553/munted-there-was-no-dialogue-no-transparency

    • greywarshark 4.1
      2 September 2020 at 11:22 am

      This is about post-earthquake and what National chose not to do for the people that would have been fair and appropriate, and how if National had been in power at the start of the Covid-19 outbreak, and behaved in the same dilatory, apathetic, unethical way, the deaths would have been in the thousands.

      Thank God we have this government in at this time, and can people who don't want National's dilatory, apathetic, unethical pattern of government, please rise up and give a tick to the Party who will be there for us, working out how to manage the increasing negative events that are forecast to impact on us.

  5. dv 5
    2 September 2020 at 8:02 am

    Have any of the 'media,' published the latest Roy Morgan?

    • Stephen D 5.1
      2 September 2020 at 8:23 am

      I know the question was rhetorical, but nope.

    • Sabine 5.2
      2 September 2020 at 8:45 am

      why bother?the polling was taken two weeks ago, and considering the brouhaha since, the only poll relevant is the next one coming out. That will be the fun one.

    • swordfish 5.3
      2 September 2020 at 8:58 am

      .

      While Greenies can be relatively satisfied with their Party's 3.5 point increase to 11.5% in the latest Roy Morgan … best they don't become too euphoric or take the figure literally.

      Roy Morgan tend to overstate Green support….

      For example, the Greens rated 10.5% in the RM in both Jan & Feb 2020 … and 11.5% in March.

      Around the same time, they were on 5.0% in the Colmar Brunton & 5.6% in Reid Research (with their ratings in Party Internals – Curia & UMR – taking an intermediate position at 7.0% & 9.0% respectively).

      (That’s putting aside, of course, any fallout from the latest micro-scandal involving affluent New Age Hippies, Private Schools, Crystals, aromatherapy, hands-on-healing & the channeling of some sort of mysterious universal energies known only to the terminally self-indulgent)

      • Pat 5.3.1
        2 September 2020 at 9:08 am

        indeed…and the detail worsens.

        Fingers crossed.

      • Robert Guyton 5.3.2
        2 September 2020 at 10:31 am

        If the "New Age hippies" are indeed able to channel universal energies, support for The Greens will rise in the polls.

        smiley

        • swordfish 5.3.2.1
          2 September 2020 at 10:38 am

          I can feel an Enya song coming on.

          • greywarshark 5.3.2.1.1
            2 September 2020 at 11:07 am

            Which one exactly. Can we have the facts please.

            • Incognito 5.3.2.1.1.1
              2 September 2020 at 11:17 am

              It doesn’t matter, as they all put me to sleep.

              • greywarshark …
                2 September 2020 at 11:25 am

                That's okay though, as long as you can wake refreshed and ready to come phoenix-like back into the fray. We need you to stay the distance! Kia kaha.

          • Robert Guyton 5.3.2.1.2
            2 September 2020 at 12:04 pm

            Perhaps she'll pen one especially for James. It could play at every Green hui.

            • greywarshark 5.3.2.1.2.1
              2 September 2020 at 12:54 pm

              Perhaps poor James could just play a recording of Woof Woof the Tui vocalising, RIP Woof-Woof. Nothing James does or says manages to please – he could invite people to choose one of Woof-woofs offerings to save him from opening his mouth and putting his foot in it. Perhaps while they are looking towards the sounds, James could sneak away and manage to get something done, going in a forward direction.

  6. Andre 6
    2 September 2020 at 8:24 am

    Uhhh, yeah. Always a good thing to respond to reports of your spare wheel being told to be ready to step in by asserting that reports of mini-strokes are FAKE NEWS. Leaving everyone to ask: what's this about mini-strokes?

    https://www.salon.com/2020/09/01/trump-calls-fake-news-on-reports-of-his-mini-strokes-journalists-say-what-reports/

    • Stuart Munro 6.1
      2 September 2020 at 9:18 am

      Reckon this is one of Trump's dead cats. He can win it by getting the story circulating, and since it isn't actually true, he can actually debunk it. Scores points with his base, erodes confidence in MSM.

      • Andre 6.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 12:28 pm

        That all seems a bit too subtle and complex for Hair Twitler's non-thought processes. Possibly more of a failed attempt to plant an association of strokes with Biden.

        "It never ends! Now they are trying to say that your favorite President, me, went to Walter Reed Medical Center, having suffered a series of mini-strokes. Never happened to THIS candidate – FAKE NEWS," he tweeted.

        Trump then seemed to use his trip to Walter Reed, where Joe Biden's son Beau died from brain cancer, as a way to question the Democratic nominee's health, adding, "Perhaps they are referring to another candidate from another Party!"

        https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/01/politics/trump-doctor-mini-strokes/index.html

  7. Stephen D 7
    2 September 2020 at 8:27 am

    'Particularly annoyed' Collins vows to find out who created 'misleading' National ad with her name on it

    Judith can't control her own party members.

    Regularly polling below 30%.

    Is there nobody left in the National cares who cares about the result? Have all the CVs gone out already? There's a story for Felicity Ferret.

    • mac1 7.1
      2 September 2020 at 9:36 am

      One of the questions I'd be asking of the 'strong team' is why any responsible for this lying, false and smearing (herself and others) misinformation should actually think that they should be doing it on behalf of the National Party.

      Not just the name of Judith Collins associated with it.

      The rank false letterhead.

      The misquoting.

      The lying by deception.

      The lying by omission.

      "Who are you that you think such lies and deception should be part of a political campaign?"

      But she won't.

      The same question to be asked of her husband since he chose also to enter the political arena with the same style of puerile and belittling characterisations.

      National does not deserve the 28% that Roy Morgan awards it!

    • Wensleydale 7.2
      2 September 2020 at 11:28 am

      Those 'emotional junior staffers' are at it again.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.3
      2 September 2020 at 3:32 pm

      Quoting article:

      I am particularly annoyed that it has happened. It's not like its $11.7 million for the Green School.

      No, it's far, far worse as its actively lying.

  8. Andre 8
    2 September 2020 at 9:21 am

    Ooooh … below the belt.

    • Wensleydale 8.1
      2 September 2020 at 11:34 am

      It's blisteringly obvious Melania can't stand him. She finds him understandably repellent, so I hope the money keeps her warm at night. I feel sorry for Barron. He's likely going to grow up to be a dysfunctional young man, which is a tragedy.

  9. mango 9
    2 September 2020 at 9:28 am

    I know that some will disagree but the current hysterical attack on the green party is starting to smell of dirty politics. Of course the journos are always looking for the latest gotcha and are willing dupes of anyone willing to provide it but it feels like more than that to me.

    The whole new age thing seems deliberately calculated to rile the christian fundies even though they are not going to be GP supporters anyway, but it does remind me of the exclusive brethren thing.

    • woodart 9.1
      2 September 2020 at 9:42 am

      agree mango. I expect more attempted hit jobs on greens and nzfirst. if you cant dent jacinda's popularity, the next targets are the gov support parties. theres one journo(?) in particular that seems to specialise in hit jobs on nzfirst. must be time for him to crawl out from whatever rock he dwells under.

  10. Dennis Frank 10
    2 September 2020 at 9:29 am

    Families divided by belief systems – what else is new? 🙄

    Since the Covid-19 pandemic began, New Zealand, along with many other countries, has seen a spike in the number of conspiracy theories being shared online. Ideas that were once fringe are becoming more mainstream.

    Grant says his parents are just ageing lefty hippies, who have some alternative views… Grant* is considering secretly cutting off his parents' internet connection, which may sound dramatic, but he is desperate.

    He's tried talking to them privately about the videos and articles they share on social media – the ones that make false, often conflicting claims about almost everything – from Bill Gates, vaccinations, microchips and Agenda 2030 – the United Nations' sustainable development goals – to 5G, 'Big Pharma', and far-right theories about Trump and hydroxychloroquine.

    But he's had no success – they won't listen to him. They won't stop believing conspiracy theories. https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/424112/when-a-relative-falls-down-a-conspiracy-theory-rabbit-hole

    Well, no. People believe what they want. Trying to persuade others to believe what you believe never works. The best you can hope to achieve is raising awareness of alternative views. Facts sometimes work too – but that depends on palatability.

    Grant's parents came across Plandemic – a slick-looking 'documentary' which claims a secret society of billionaires is plotting to gain global domination by controlling people through a Covid-19 vaccine.

    It went viral and Grant's parents, who were already against vaccination, shared it on Facebook, believing it was true. What saddens Grant about all this, is that though his mum and dad are sharing misinformation, adding to an already raging infodemic during a global crisis, they're not bad people.

    They believe what they're sharing is true. "They have good hearts. They're coming from a good place. They're not trying to hurt anyone. They think they're helping people," he says… When Grant tried to speak to them, he was stonewalled.

    I suspect his experience is a happening thing up & down the country nowadays.

    If academic theories about socio-economic status, education and a lack of power making people vulnerable to conspiracy thinking are correct, then the cumulative effects of colonisation means Māori are some of the most at risk.

    It's something that researcher and environmentalist Tina Ngata (Ngāti Porou) has thought about a lot in her work combating the spread of false information… "it is really easy to believe that there are people out there with ill intentions toward you, that there are people out there who want to continue to dispossess you, and that that intention will extend to wiping you out, because that's in our history," Ngata says. "So when people want to suggest that there is a greater power out there, seeking to take everything off you… It's only too believable when that experience, it's in your DNA."

    Inasmuch as the control system has always worked via deceit, discovery of that (via reading history or websites) can induce an internal binary trigger, flipping people from sheeple status into the supposed cognoscenti. Those with critical faculties may not succumb to an alternative belief system (natural sceptics tend not to become victims) but many happily replace the trad narrative with a seductive alternative, uncritically.

    If the establishment were to stop lying to everyone, the potential for mass sociopathy would not be so dangerous. The mental health of the public remains vulnerable to delusions via contagion as long as the political left & right refuse to behave themselves.

    • greywarshark 10.1
      2 September 2020 at 11:37 am

      edit
      Those with university degrees now and particularly in science, feel that everything they know is invulnerable to any other point of view. They cite evidence-based as their mantra, which relates back to Age of Enlightment views setting reason and evidence against church edicts and dogma beliefs.

      But now the belief is in the correctness of anything that gets presented from some learning institution, in words and figures with some provenance; the thought that so-called evidence based stuff has to be checked for bias is broadly by-passed. And stuff that the older person knows from lifelong learning and observing is of no more significance than anything that has been picked out the broad mass of memes always circling. In fact if it isn't touted as a new idea by media, it is old hat, and not the Sorting Hat either.

  11. Muttonbird 11
    2 September 2020 at 9:39 am

    So, Mrs Wong-Tung 'didn't even know about' the fake ad she authorised. How then can she claim to be across her role? And how can she criticise others for not being across theirs?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425018/collins-didn-t-even-know-about-misleading-national-ad

    Mrs Wong-Tung is calling for James Shaw to resign over the Green School funding decision. This is the dead cat strategy we knew she would use to distract from her own failings as a leader and a wife.

    • woodart 11.1
      2 September 2020 at 9:47 am

      collins doesnt seem to know whether to come across as crusher or cushla. maybe having a doorstop for a deputy hasnt helped. for a party that pushes the team word, she seems to be doing all of the heavy lifting. anybody seen any of her team?

      • Shanreagh 11.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 9:59 am

        I think they are all busy scurrying around looking and digging for dirt plus writing false ads that she then has to deny or ringing up talkback radio shows……they're really busy people.

      • mac1 11.1.2
        2 September 2020 at 10:39 am

        The 'strong team' might be trying to dissociate itself from the strong stench coming from the top table.

        The strong team is so strong that it can write lying messages using the imprimatur of their leader seemingly without fear of the strong leader's disapproval.

    • fender 11.2
      2 September 2020 at 10:15 am

      Funny also that there's been no mention of the serious money wasted on Nationals charter school b.s.

  12. Tricledrown 12
    2 September 2020 at 9:57 am

    Gerry mandering Brownlee saying the Sam Morgan covid card should have already been in use.

    The cost of $400 million supposedly not a problem even if it doesn't work ,no trial required with windbag Brownlee.

  13. Andre 13
    2 September 2020 at 10:02 am

    About that idea of covid testing people before being allowed to board flights to NZ: there's been plenty of reasoned explanation why that's pointless, but here's the proof:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122636917/five-new-christchurch-covid-cases-tested-negative-when-they-boarded-plane-to-nz

    • weka 13.1
      2 September 2020 at 10:54 am

      the point of testing before flying isn't to catch false negatives, it's to catch asymptomatic, presymptomatic, and low symptomatic positives and stop them getting on a plane with the virus with other people who don't have it. It's about lowering risk of transmission on planes*.

      There are compelling reasons not to test pre-flight, but they're around fairness for returning NZers, not ideas about perfection in testing.

      *I never saw the science on whether that would work mind.

  14. millsy 14
    2 September 2020 at 10:08 am

    Trump would have openly defended the practice of lynching is he was around during that era.

    It's going to be a bloodbath if he gets another term. I promise you that there will be progroms like you have never seen before during that time.

  15. Muttonbird 15
    2 September 2020 at 10:30 am

    Contrast this compensation payment for a workplace related incident with the compensation payment for tenants who had their front door stolen and positions damaged but their landlord. $20K vs 6K.

    Employment law strong. Tenancy law very, very weak.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122627382/vape-shop-worker-unpaid-and-humiliated-by-friend-awarded-50k-in-compensation

    • Molly 15.1
      2 September 2020 at 11:23 am

      Having been through the Tenancy Tribunal recently, which resulted in a termination order for the tenants, the process was very balanced.

      The tribunal hearing made a judgement ONLY on the failure to pay rent.

      The fact that although the police told us to write down and record his abusive behaviour, and we had 20 pages of incidents and sound recordings as well as texts that took hours to collate, were not heard at the Tribunal. The mediator told us – do you want him out or not? When I replied yes, but surely it would be better for others if there is a record of his abusive behaviour? The mediator said – well, I have to give a termination order for unpaid rent, so I will. If I give a termination order for abusive behaviour – it will likely be overturned, so I suggest you just take the unpaid rent option and it's over.

      I am an advocate for fair treatment of people. Whether tenants or landlords. The experience of going through the Tribunal process – at the instigation of the tenant who didn't bother to turn up, makes me believe that the process is not as efficient or effective as it could be. It doesn't make me think that the process is slanted towards the landlords, if anything, it errs on the side of the tenant.

      The issue over compensation of two separate cases in two different areas of law, is a red herring.

      • weka 15.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 11:30 am

        My experience with the TT as a renter a long time ago was very good. I took the complaint because the landlord wouldn't return my bond. I got paid out because the landlord was unreasonable, treated the process without respect, and ignored the ruling the first time.

        I will say however that I prepared and presented really well, had good support, and have my middle class background that helps me read the room pretty well in situations like that. I can imagine the same set of circumstances going against a tenant up against a landlord who presented well and where the tenant didn’t.

        • Molly 15.1.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 12:37 pm

          The process should work in such a way that whoever is at fault is found to be at fault, and asked to remediate or be fined accordingly. Whether they are landlord or tenant. The power imbalance regarding this relationship needs to be considered and I believe there are changes that could make this process much better. The use of a mediator before the hearing is set may be the answer, but we did not experience this for ourselves.

          (In our case, after awaiting mediator hearing by phone, the time and date for this session was interrupted by the police attending once again, as the tenant ran down the road in his underpants after taking his partner's phone as she didn't want to participate.)

          After ten days of the mediator trying to get back in touch with the tenant, we asked that it be moved on to the hearing, as the mediation process was going nowhere. But that may be the best avenue to addressing the power imbalance if done correctly.

          But the idea that all landlords are treating tenants badly, is not going to assist in resolving issues.

          • weka 15.1.1.1.1
            2 September 2020 at 8:19 pm

            I agree. Mediation wasn't available when I went through that but it sounds like it would useful for many.

            it sounds like your situation was quite specific. I'm guessing most problems are things like bond not being returned, or tenant damaging property/not paying rent.

    • RedBaronCV 15.2
      2 September 2020 at 12:13 pm

      Surely at the point where he removed the front door there would be a criminal offence of some thing like breaking and entering and dusting for finger prints on their stuff would confirm entry. Tenants are entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property whilst renting. His actions to me go beyond any civil offence – pretty similar to putting camera's on tenants.

      • Molly 15.2.1
        2 September 2020 at 12:27 pm

        I haven't seen the article that Muttonbird refers to. He hasn't linked. But comparing the two issues, seems disingenious.

        In response to the camera issue, the police (who were almost always called by the tenant himself to sort out an argument between him and his partner), kept asking us to video record the tenant, which we refused to do.

        The police were ineffective with making us feel safe in our home, in a different landlord situation, the neighbours would have been in the same position, and they would have had to present at the hearing with the understanding that they may have to return home to live next door to the person they testified against.

        I don't think Muttonbird's comparison of two separate court rulings gives a reasonable perspective into tenancy rights.

        • RedBaronCV 15.2.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 12:39 pm

          Ah I wasn't clear I was referring to the landlords who faced criminal charges after setting up cameras to record tenants in the rental – like in the shower – the perverted stuff.

          • Molly 15.2.1.1.2
            2 September 2020 at 2:39 pm

            I don't know about that case, but given what you said, I agree that they should face criminal charges, whether landlord, flatmate or otherwise.

            The one grey links to below, shows the law working as it should. The landlord did not follow any of the responsibilities of a landlord and this was noted and he was fined accordingly.

            As an aside, that doesn't mean that the law at present is effective. The inability of the police to aid the tenants in this case, show that work needs to be done. (As neighbours, the police were equally ineffective and unable to assist, although they asked more than once for us to videotape the neighbours/tenants to help them with prosecution.)

            Strangely enough, one of the police issues was that our tenants had wilfully signed the tenancy agreement stating that neither of them was a minor. The male partner started ringing the police to evict his female partner from the flat saying that she was not a valid tenant.

            After several instances of this happening, I called the Tenancy Services who had to get back to me after checking with their legal team. Their advice: despite knowingly signing the agreement knowing the information to be false, the female tenant had all the rights of a tenant, BUT none of the liability. Once I informed the police of this, they stopped trying to get her to leave the property on the whim of her partner.

            It was only recently that I wondered: what if they both were under the age of 18 and knowingly signed the agreement stating they were not? What does that mean for any damages or rent arrears arising from a tenancy such as that?

            As for the original comment, it is just that I don't think that comparison between an employment issue, and a tenancy issue is useful in a conversation about tenancy rights and responsible renting practice.

        • Muttonbird 15.2.1.2
          2 September 2020 at 8:54 pm

          I haven't seen the article that Muttonbird refers to. He hasn't linked. But comparing the two issues, seems disingenious.

          New rule. You don't have to now.

          • Molly 15.2.1.2.1
            2 September 2020 at 9:06 pm

            It wasn't an argument against what you were saying. It was just a statement of fact, – I didn't know the case you were referring to.

            I still think comparing employment tribunal compensation against tenancy compensation is irrelevant, and misleading.

            Point out the tenancy laws that you believe are weak, and you will be sticking to the issue at hand.

          • Incognito 15.2.1.2.2
            2 September 2020 at 9:18 pm

            The new rule is the same as the old rule: please provide a link if you want to improve the quality and flow of commentary here, especially when asked by other commenters. The bold font tends to be reserved for recidivist offenders and smart alecs.

  16. Karl Sinclair 16
    2 September 2020 at 10:34 am

    HOME SWEET HOME: Cheap affordable housing finally….. This could have such a major impact on poverty etc

    Problems:

    • housing is over priced
    • banks and companies make too much profit and are controlling the market
    • people are being shackled to debt
    • landlords want you renting not buying

    Potential Solution:

    • Affordable Prefab homes

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018762052/could-boxes-from-china-solve-our-housing-problems

    Issue:

    They are not made in NZ (materials etc overcharged in NZ), but hey it is a start.

    However, this is something to celebrate

    Good on ya Tony Houston, your a legend

    • Sabine 16.1
      2 September 2020 at 10:41 am

      We have a hole lot of kit set houses, tiny houses etc all 'made in NZ' and non of them is the issue.

      The high cost of housing in NZ is due to the high cost of land. And China can provide a box for 0.50NZD per pop if the patch of dirt you want to put the box on is 450.000$ plus you still don't have an affordable property.

      Repeat, the house has no value, its the land that carries the value.

      • Karl Sinclair 16.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 10:53 am

        Sabine, very good point about land cost

        Imagine, if land suddenly became available and affordable via the “magic wand” called zoning that local councils have. Allowing multiple small houses closely packed together.

        https://www.propertyguides.com/new-zealand/news/how-can-you-find-land-to-build-on-in-new-zealand/

        The cost of a plot can vary wildly depending on its location, as does the cost of actually having the property built. This starts from around $1,700 per square metre. $2,000-2,500 is more common, and $3,000 is what you should expect if you’re having something custom built.

        • Sabine 16.1.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 11:08 am

          are there any jobs near the affordable plots of land? Next quetsion.

          That too is a big part in the artificially created unaffordability housing saga of these fair lands.

          We have whole towns with empty houses, empty town centres and no one wants to move there as the only way of living there would be on Winz. And so as long as that is not even considered – and now the shovel ready jobs in construction are not really an incentive to move anywhere as these jobs are only temporary. Once the construction is over the jobs are gone. Mind one local may get to be a jantior or a school cook or a cleaner but even that is not good enough to get people to move there.

          So only looking at a cheap kitset house is faulty, as is looking only at the price of land.

          Repeat, houses can be cheap, but land in places with job opportunities is very expensive. Houses in areas with no jobs tend to be very very cheap, and yet they would still be too expensive while trying to make it on the benefit.

          So please don't pull up a paid advertisment for some realtors that would like to flock of some land in no–job country.

          • woodart 16.1.1.1.1
            2 September 2020 at 11:21 am

            the other part of this equation is that many of those cheap sections in empty towns come with a huge rates bill that would shock aucklanders who think their rates are high. someone needs to fund these provincial councils and it sure as hell isnt the surrounding farmers, who while watching their land values skyrocket, have mostly managed to keep their rates bill artificially low.

            • greywarshark 16.1.1.1.1.1
              2 September 2020 at 12:05 pm

              No easy answer on housing. Central government could help by enabling small pockets of tiny houses that would be looked after well, gardens, covered outdoor areas, some rented some bought from Trusts as a form of saving, to be repaid from Trust when sold back. On transport, near shopping centre, schools. Carrying forward Schumacher's 'Small is Beautiful'. Local Councils funded to start similar.

              Get started, give people a place to be, help them with security of tenure, and able to join a group that helps others in similar housing communities – helping each other with shifting stuff, repairing stuff, and can call for assistance for themselves. Time bank stuff. Learn skills, resilience and support community with conviviality – nice word. Individuality within stable, good community – way to go.

              • Karl Sinclair …
                2 September 2020 at 9:33 pm

                Hi there all of ya,

                Totally get were you are coming from. greywarshark, like your approach

  17. Dennis Frank 17
    2 September 2020 at 10:45 am

    A Horizon Research survey, commissioned for Helius Therapeutics and provided exclusively to Stuff, shows that the forces of legalisation and prohibition are neck and neck at 49.5 per cent each … Conducted between 20 and 25 August, the survey sampled over 1300 New Zealanders, and has a margin of error of 2.7 per cent.

    National voters remain strongly opposed with 83 per cent against the bill, while 58 per cent of ACT voters are now also against the change – possibly reflecting their higher polling. Green Party voters continue to strengthen their support with 94 per cent in favour; 61 per cent of Labour voters are in favour, as are 58 per cent of NZ First voters.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122628576/cannabis-referendum-new-poll-shows-dead-heat-in-legalise-dope-vote

    • weka 17.1
      2 September 2020 at 10:56 am

      can't wait to see if the ALCP vote shifts to the Greens this year.

      • Dennis Frank 17.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 11:27 am

        Usually @ 1%, but every little bit helps. Goes to show the supposed liberality of the Nats is merely skin deep. Even NZF way more liberal!

        • greywarshark 17.1.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 12:21 pm

          The problem for the Nats is that outbreak of liberally painting on slow-setting glue to their chairs. The poor dears are getting gradually more isolated and feeble as they expend their energy endeavouring to rise from their seats just to go to the toilet. The thought of changing anything to make the world a better place for other people, must be considered carefully because it would create a precedent for them, having done it once they will be expected to do it again. Exhausting, the responsibility on one! /sarc – for the feeble minded.

    • woodart 17.2
      2 September 2020 at 11:24 am

      any act voter in favour of continueing prohibition shows their complete hypocrisy. thought they were the party of small gov, personal freedom etc? expect nat voters to want the status quo, thats a conservative view, but thought act voters were cut from different cloth(yeah right)

    • Draco T Bastard 17.3
      2 September 2020 at 3:52 pm

      while 58 per cent of ACT voters are now also against the change – possibly reflecting their higher polling.

      Which is probably reflecting that the new ACT voters are all ex-National.

  18. Sabine 18
    2 September 2020 at 12:31 pm

    sorry dear beneficiaries but the government got a surplus to look at and besides you got a double heat payment and a 25NZD increase.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300097143/winter-energy-payment-to-end-their-income-is-going-to-fall-off-a-cliff

    Research from the Child Action Poverty Group shows incomes for all households receiving benefits and/or superannuation will drop by $63 a week for families and couples, and $41 a week for single adults.

    The Child Poverty Action Group (CPAG) and Auckland Action Against Poverty are both backing Agnes' call – CPAG researcher Janet McAllister said the payment had not doubled this year because of winter energy, but because of Covid.

    As was the 25NZD increase in the base benefit. Without covid non of these payments would have happened in the first place. Maybe that is something to think about?

    The chair of the government's own Welfare Expert Advisory Group, Cindy Kiro, said the welfare system simply wasn't working.

    "Whatever justification you want to use people to pay people who desperately need more money, more money is fine by me – you can call it a Covid wage extension, you can call it a Covid hardship extension – you can call it a 'summer' winter payment – I don't care what you call it."

    never mind the Minister has no issues with the poverty levels as they are, after all what would Carmel Sepuloni and hte Labour Party run on if not 'kinder gentler war on the poor'.

    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni said there were no plans to keep the money going – but it wasn't the only boost beneficiaries had received as part of the government's $5 billion families package.

  19. Dennis Frank 19
    2 September 2020 at 12:33 pm

    We're learning more about how the govt does regional development, thanks to Richard Harman.

    The decision to fund the Taranaki green school was made after warnings from Labour Ministers that it should not be funded and after Cabinet’s Economic Committee had rejected funding for it. POLITIK has learned that the funding decision came only after Greens co-leader, James Shaw, insisted that it be funded. https://www.politik.co.nz/2020/09/02/the-greens-ideological-tantrums/ | Politik

    Shaw said he was introduced to Rachel and Mike Perrett who have founded the school by New Plymouth mayor, Neil Holdom. Mike Perrett founded HRV, a nationwide heating and ventilating company and has plans to make the green schools global. Holdom is a strong supporter. “New Zealand has a long history of innovation and leadership and what the world needs now are more environmental entrepreneurs tackling the problems brought on by a rapidly growing population, unable or unwilling to mitigate its impact on our planet,” he said in July. “We need to support the Green School New Zealand team and help them transform their vision into reality in Taranaki, as a gift to our children.”

    Venture Taranaki also supported the school. Its CEO, Justine Gilliland, said the international education market was worth $51 million to Taranaki’s economy, “and by aligning our strengths with global demand, this could grow.” But none of this impressed the Labour and NZ First Ministers who approve funding like that for shovel ready projects.

    Who's guilty, then?

    Those projects were initially evaluated by Associate Finance Minister, David Parker; Finance Minister, Grant Robertson; Economic Development Minister, Phil Twyford and Regional Economic Development Minister, Shane Jones.

    The projects were then considered by the Cabinet Economic Committee chaired by Robertson and with 17 members including James Shaw and Eugenie Sage from the Greens. POLITIK understands that the Labour and New Zealand First Ministers on the committee refused to agree to fund going to the green school.

    So even though the regional heads in Taranaki were dead keen, the Labour/NZF ministers were dead against. So much for the credibility of coalition regional development policy. Ain't worth shit.

  20. Ad 20
    2 September 2020 at 1:01 pm

    Looks like James Shaw just lost Gordon Campbell from Scoop.

    Given that Campbell used to run strategy for the Greens, it's a loss from an influential left commentator.

    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2009/S00012/on-james-shaws-spectacular-own-goal.htm

    • Robert Guyton 20.1
      2 September 2020 at 1:13 pm

      Gordon Campbell reckons James' mistake "now risks alienating another Green constituency: teachers in state schools."

      I don't believe teachers are so highly-strung that they'll abandon the Green Party over this, especially given James' apology; teachers know to blame the behaviour, not the person.
      Nor do I think The Greens have lost the confidence and support of Gordon Campbell; he’s not flakey.

    • Bearded Git 20.2
      2 September 2020 at 1:19 pm

      Campbell is great journalist, a solid fact-based leftie.

      Because of this I think perhaps he should read Dennis Frank's post above re the process that was taken to approve the (non-education budget) cash for the Green School.

      Shaw's opinion was supported by the Taranaki region (the mayor/Venture Taranaki) and qualified as a somewhat green, job rich and innovative shovel ready project.

      Shaw's small error of judgement needs to be contrasted with his solid support for Climate Change measures and for a Wealth Tax that will raise $7.9 billion annually to alleviate poverty. Context is everything.

      The media has targeted Shaw to try to get the Greens under 5%, as with Matiria Turei in 2017.

      • Robert Guyton 20.2.2
        2 September 2020 at 1:41 pm

        Gordon Campbell's not a reactionary, with an axe to grind then use to give James Shaw the chop, as Ad appears to be.

        • sumsuch 20.2.2.1
          3 September 2020 at 1:25 am

          Respect Gordon Campbell, which is unusual in post-Welfare State NZ politics, but disagree with him.

      • Andre 20.2.3
        2 September 2020 at 1:43 pm

        Thing is, the wealth tax is a solid turn-off to a segment of voters that might vote green.

        Shovelling a load of taxpayer money at an elitist eco-mysticism (lovely euphemism) private school is likely to be another solid turn-off to the same segment.

        Another big turn-off is the absence of anyone high on the list of the calibre and substance of the likes of Hague or Graham or Norman that give the impression of seeing ways to implement environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society. Hell, even Gareth Hughes has pulled the pin. Genter and Sage are certainly solid in their areas of interest, but realistically they seem limited in range. Shaw seemed to have represented that aspect of green thought, but if it turns out he's fully on board with woo-woo …

        • Robert Guyton 20.2.3.1
          2 September 2020 at 1:47 pm

          James Shaw did exceptional work on the Climate Change legislation; his skills were lauded near and far. It's difficult to see why you wouldn't consider that "environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society."
          You last sentence seems nonsensical. Perhaps you too woo woo?

          • Andre 20.2.3.1.1
            2 September 2020 at 1:53 pm

            I'm not ignoring it, it's part of the balance I'm considering, and that others I know consider. But it's only one factor and nowhere near enough on its own to outweigh a whole lot of negatives that are adding up.

            • Robert Guyton 20.2.3.1.1.1
              2 September 2020 at 2:21 pm

              So you don't think James Shaw is someone, " high on the list of the calibre and substance of the likes of Hague or Graham or Norman that give the impression of seeing ways to implement environmental improvement in the context of a modern, population-dense, technological society.", as per your comment?

              • Andre …
                2 September 2020 at 2:25 pm

                I used to. But if he put it all on the line for the Green School after meeting the owners, as described in Harman's article, then I now really have serious doubts.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  2 September 2020 at 2:28 pm

                  That seems very … light… of you.

                • weka …
                  2 September 2020 at 5:17 pm

                  Jobs, green infrastructure instead of brown, lots of support from local council, those where the boxes ticked and it's pretty clear why Shaw was supportive. Looks to me like people are using the crystal workshop stuff as an excuse, because really it has nothing to do with the contract. Am still waiting for lefties to have a go at Māori for including woo in their education.

    • McFlock 20.3
      2 September 2020 at 2:54 pm

      Given that Campbell used to run strategy for the Greens, it's a loss from an influential left commentator.

      Did Gordon Campbell do that as well as Andrew Campbell?

      • In Vino 20.3.1
        2 September 2020 at 6:58 pm

        Are you insinuating that the quotation is baloney?

        (No response, so I thought I would accentuate the point. I myself don't remember Gordon Campbell being loudly connected to the Greens..)

        • McFlock 20.3.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 8:41 pm

          I was at the pub.

          The quote was an opinion that Ad said was notable because of the author's position. I don't know the author's CV, but do know AC was in a position that fits the description.

          I tend to agree with Robert, though – the cockup caused a rucus, but I doubt the ripples will last until the election.

    • weka 20.4
      2 September 2020 at 5:19 pm

      GC seems to be conflating the govt with the Greens. What's the GP involvement in the DHB decisions been?

    • sumsuch 20.5
      3 September 2020 at 1:22 am

      Shaw made a mistake, the Greens concentrate on what matters most, just not great sellers of it. Not for a millisecond will I put aside helping the neediest as the Greens promise, unlike Labour.

  21. greywarshark 21
    2 September 2020 at 1:44 pm

    Bohemian sort of Rhapsody about Covid-19 – Clever

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Eo9M4-BrJA

  22. Tricledrown 22
    2 September 2020 at 2:27 pm

    More pork Theisen employed by a GOP superpac telling more porkies on behalf of Trump.He is not a journalist merely writes propaganda opinion pieces every 2 weeks in the Washington post.

    Reply button not working sorry.

  23. Robert Guyton 23
    2 September 2020 at 2:28 pm

    Oh! Classic put-down in the House just now, of Judith Collins by Grant Robertson!

    "A coalition is a little bit like a marriage, you can’t control everything your partner does."
    Judith fumed.

  24. bwaghorn 24
    2 September 2020 at 3:06 pm

    She mustn't have seen the Robinson had his eye brows raised.

  25. millsy 25
    2 September 2020 at 4:31 pm

    Had Shaw not funded the green school or whatever it is, we would be subject to barrage after barrage of press releases condemning him for being 'ideologically opposed to private education', 'beholden to the teachers unions', 'a watermelon' and so on.

    The guy couldn't win here.

    • Robert Guyton 25.1
      2 September 2020 at 4:43 pm

      The guy will win here.

      • In Vino 25.1.1
        2 September 2020 at 7:03 pm

        Given the ghastly, pathetic polemic strung together by Newshub 6pm News tonight, I think you might be right, Robert.

        What discerning Green-voter would be influenced by that?

        • Robert Guyton 25.1.1.1
          2 September 2020 at 7:20 pm

          Nice to hear that from you, In Vino (veritas).

          • Robert Guyton 25.1.1.1.1
            2 September 2020 at 7:25 pm

            "The James Shaw political pile-on is off the charts after Newshub revealed he strong-armed ministerial colleagues to get funding for the controversial privately-owned Taranaki Green School." (My bold/James' bold!)

            "Strong-armed" – James Shaw! Go James. Deploy that strong arm of yours! On your ministerial colleagues! It's the Green Way!!!! KAPOW!!!

            • greywarshark 25.1.1.1.1.1
              2 September 2020 at 7:40 pm

              How come that loony managed to break James' eye socket when he punched him? James you bruiser, we need you at the gym keeping up those fitness upper-body building tactics – get that strong-arm going – Now.

      • greywarshark 25.1.2
        2 September 2020 at 7:28 pm

        ohttps://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/425075/james-shaw-battles-to-restore-his-credibility

        Jane Patterson RNZ Political Editor here having her dig at Shaw so she can be in sync with all the other excited, outraged etc. journos.

        She's turned nautical: Power Play – This time last election James Shaw captained the Green Party through the stormy waters after Metiria Turei's dramatic resignation – now he's in danger of capsizing the ship himself.

        I remember a pleasure boat filled with happy holidaymakers tuning turtle while tied at the wharf, USA I think. There was a great loss of life. The reason – something of interest appeared on one side – everyone rushed to see it – the boat tipped over. If the Right manage to catch people's idle minds with this squawking about green education, private, etc the whole election could sink.

        It's time for all true Greens to stand by their leader, stay away from the controversy, largely stay schtum, and remember that the Greens have been trying for many elections to get stuff done. James was elected to try a new approach so all you austere, lean, outdoor types have been relatively unsuccessful. STFU now, show your intelligence and restraint, and get done what is available. Once the green education thing gets going, it could be fine-tuned to face the right direction. So don't stymie a positive change that they have agreed to in Taranaki.

        At present there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

    • sumsuch 25.2
      3 September 2020 at 1:16 am

      No.

  26. bwaghorn 26
    2 September 2020 at 4:41 pm

    Millsy he wouldnt have lost any votes though,Although you would have to be a real far weather green if you used this as an excuse to not vote green .

  27. Robert Guyton 27
    2 September 2020 at 4:42 pm

    Chris Hipkins' contribution to the final debate was great story-telling that should be enjoyed by all:

    General Debate, video 12.

  28. mosa 28
    2 September 2020 at 6:34 pm

    150 hours of community service for viciously beating an animal does nothing to send the message that animals do feel pain and fear and that their lives really do mean nothing when the offender is slapped with a " wet bus ticket "
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122645593/christchurch-man-captured-on-video-beating-dog-with-wooden-plank

  29. sumsuch 29
    3 September 2020 at 1:13 am

    Reading early comments here, immediate matters no longer matter. Longer views are the new immediate politics.

    Aren't we all tired of what appears on the Front Page? Expected to get excited about passing shit.

  31. Eco Maori 31
    4 September 2020 at 1:53 pm

    🖕

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Brainwashed People Think Everyone Else is Brainwashed
    Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    3 hours ago

  • Peters’ real foreign policy threat is Helen Clark
    Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    4 hours ago

  • NZ’s trans lobby is fighting a rearguard action
    Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
    Point of OrderBy gadams1000
    12 hours ago

  • Your mandate is imaginary
    This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    17 hours ago

  • 14,000 unemployed under National
    The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    19 hours ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Discontent and gloom dominate NZ’s political mood
    Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    20 hours ago

  • Taking Tea with 42 & 38.
    National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    20 hours ago

  • Beware political propaganda: statistics are pointing to Grant Robertson never protecting “Lives an...
    Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”. As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    21 hours ago

  • Winding back the hands of history’s clock
    Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    21 hours ago

  • Paula Bennett’s political appointment will challenge public confidence
     Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
    Point of OrderBy xtrdnry
    21 hours ago

  • Business confidence sliding into winter of discontent
    TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    23 hours ago

  • Gordon Campbell on the coalition’s awful, not good, very bad poll results
    Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    1 day ago

  • New HOP readers for future payment options
    Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    1 day ago

  • 2024 Reading Summary: April (+ Writing Update)
    Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    2 days ago

  • At a glance – Clearing up misconceptions regarding 'hide the decline'
    On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
    Skeptical Science
    2 days ago

  • Road photos
    Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    2 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Paula Bennett’s political appointment will challenge public confidence
    The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    2 days ago

  • NZDF is still hostile to oversight
    Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago

  • Winding Back The Hands Of History’s Clock.
    Holding On To The Present: The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • Sweet Moderation? What Christopher Luxon Could Learn From The Germans.
    Stuck In The Middle With You: As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • A clear warning
    The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago

  • Poll results and Waitangi Tribunal report go unmentioned on the Beehive website – where racing tru...
    Buzz  from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example.  This shows National down ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    2 days ago

  • Listening To The Traffic.
    It Takes A Train To Cry: Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • Comity Be Damned! The State’s Legislative Arm Is Flexing Its Constitutional Muscles.
    Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • Ending The Quest.
    Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
    Bowalley Road
    2 days ago

  • Will political polarisation intensify to the point where ‘normal’ government becomes impossible,...
    Chris Trotter writes –  New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago

  • Bernard’s pick 'n' mix for Tuesday, April 30
    TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:30am on Tuesday, May 30:Scoop: NZ 'close to the tipping point' of measles epidemic, health experts warn NZ Herald Benjamin PlummerHealth: 'Absurd and totally unacceptable': Man has to wait a year for ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago

  • Why Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating in the country
    Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    2 days ago

  • Worst poll result for a new Government in MMP history
    Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago

  • Pinning down climate change's role in extreme weather
    This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
    Skeptical Science
    2 days ago

  • Serving at Seymour's pleasure.
    Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago

  • Webworm LA Pop-Up
    Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    2 days ago

  • “Feel good” school is out
    Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago

  • 6 Months in, surely our Report Card is “Ignored all warnings: recommend dismissal ASAP”?
    Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy. Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    2 days ago

  • Bread, and how it gets buttered
    Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: Why Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating in the country
    Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    3 days ago

  • Justice for Gaza?
    The New York Times reports that the International Criminal Court is about to issue arrest warrants for Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, over their genocide in Gaza: Israeli officials increasingly believe that the International Criminal Court is preparing to issue arrest warrants for senior government officials on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago

  • If there has been any fiddling with Pharmac’s funding, we can count on Paula to figure out the fis...
    Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago

  • FastTrackWatch – The case for the Government’s Fast Track Bill
    Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago

  • Bernard’s pick 'n' mix for Monday, April 29
    TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Gordon Campbell on Iran killing its rappers, and searching for the invisible Dr. Reti
    span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
    Gordon CampbellBy lyndon
    3 days ago

  • Auckland Rail Electrification 10 years old
    Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
    Greater AucklandBy Matt L
    3 days ago

  • Coalition's dirge of austerity and uncertainty is driving the economy into a deeper recession
    Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago

  • Disability Funding or Tax Cuts.
    You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    3 days ago

  • Of the Goodness of Tolkien’s Eru
    April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
    A Phuulish FellowBy strda221
    3 days ago

  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #17
    A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
    Skeptical Science
    4 days ago

  • Pastor Who Abused People, Blames People
    Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    4 days ago

  • Vic Uni shows how under threat free speech is
    The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago

  • Winston remembers Gettysburg.
    Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago

  • 25
    She was born 25 years ago today in North Shore hospital. Her eyes were closed tightly shut, her mouth was silently moving. The whole theatre was all quiet intensity as they marked her a 2 on the APGAR test. A one-minute eternity later, she was an 8.  The universe was ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    4 days ago

  • Fact Brief – Is Antarctica gaining land ice?
    Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • Policing protests.
    Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    5 days ago

  • Open letter to Hon Paul Goldsmith
    Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Bryce Edwards: FastTrackWatch – The Case for the Government’s Fast Track Bill
    Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    5 days ago

  • Luxon gets out his butcher’s knife – briefly
    Peter Dunne writes –  The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • More tax for less
    Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago

  • Real News vs Fake News.
    We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago

  • Another way to roll
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Share ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    5 days ago

  • Simon Clark: The climate lies you'll hear this year
    This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
    Skeptical Science
    5 days ago

  • Cutting the Public Service
    It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    6 days ago

  • Luxon’s demoted ministers might take comfort from the British politician who bounced back after th...
    Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious:  we live in a troubled ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • This is how I roll over
    1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    6 days ago

  • The Waitangi Tribunal is not “a roving Commission”…
    …it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisition   NOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes –  The High Court ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Is Oranga Tamariki guilty of neglect?
    Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same? Oranga Tamariki’s statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. “There are less children ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago

  • Three Strikes saw lower reoffending
    David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • Luxon’s ruthless show of strength is perfect for our angry era
    Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in politics. That’s refreshing and will be extremely ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago

  • 'Lacks attention to detail and is creating double-standards.'
    TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago

  • One Night Only!
    Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago

  • What did Melissa Lee do?
    It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago

  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #17 2024
    Open access notables Ice acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment: In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
    Skeptical Science
    7 days ago

  • Maori Party (with “disgust”) draws attention to Chhour’s race after the High Court rules on Wa...
    Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    7 days ago

  • Who’s Going Up The Media Mountain?
    Mr Bombastic: Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
    Bowalley Road
    7 days ago

  • “That's how I roll”
    It's hard times try to make a livingYou wake up every morning in the unforgivingOut there somewhere in the cityThere's people living lives without mercy or pityI feel good, yeah I'm feeling fineI feel better then I have for the longest timeI think these pills have been good for meI ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago

  • “Comity” versus the rule of law
    In 1974, the US Supreme Court issued its decision in United States v. Nixon, finding that the President was not a King, but was subject to the law and was required to turn over the evidence of his wrongdoing to the courts. It was a landmark decision for the rule ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago

  • Aotearoa: a live lab for failed Right-wing socio-economic zombie experiments once more…
    Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder. In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago

  • Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)
    New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    15 hours ago

  • Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...
    Good evening –   Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago

  • Accelerating airport security lines
    From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    18 hours ago

  • Community hui to talk about kina barrens
    People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    23 hours ago

  • Kiwi exporters win as NZ-EU FTA enters into force
    Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    24 hours ago

  • Mining resurgence a welcome sign
    There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill passes first reading
    The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Government to boost public EV charging network
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure.  The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Residential Property Managers Bill to not progress
    The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Independent review into disability support services
    The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Justice Minister updates UN on law & order plan
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Ending emergency housing motels in Rotorua
    The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Trade Minister travels to Riyadh, OECD, and Dubai
    Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Education priorities focused on lifting achievement
    Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • NZTA App first step towards digital driver licence
    The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say.  “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Supporting whānau out of emergency housing
    Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Tribute to Dave O'Sullivan
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Speech – Eid al-Fitr
    Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Government saves access to medicines
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff.    “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Pharmac Chair appointed
    Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Taking action on Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder
    Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says.  “Every day, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • New sports complex opens in Kaikohe
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Diplomacy needed more than ever
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges.    “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address, Buttes New British Cemetery Belgium
    Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service.  It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address – NZ National Service, Chunuk Bair
    Distinguished guests -   It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders.   Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address – Dawn Service, Gallipoli, Türkiye
    Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia.   Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • PM announces changes to portfolios
    Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New catch limits for unique fishery areas
    Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Minister welcomes hydrogen milestone
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Urgent changes to system through first RMA Amendment Bill
    The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Overseas decommissioning models considered
    Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Release of North Island Severe Weather Event Inquiry
    Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Justice Minister to attend Human Rights Council
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order.  “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Patterson reopens world’s largest wool scouring facility
    Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Speech to the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective Summit, 18 April 2024
    Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing  At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin    Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho    Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today.    I am delighted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Government to introduce revised Three Strikes law
    The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New diplomatic appointments
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions.   “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says.    “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Humanitarian support for Ethiopia and Somalia
    New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today.   “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Arts Minister congratulates Mataaho Collective
    Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale.  “It is good ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Supporting better financial outcomes for Kiwis
    The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-05-01T21:17:16+00:00