Open Mike 06/06/2018

173 comments on “Open Mike 06/06/2018 ”

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1. Tony Veitch (not etc) 1

   6 June 2018 at 6:30 am

   What are the Coalition government thinking of?

   Putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop! Bolger to chair the discussions on a fair wage system!

   Or do they have such a cunning plan you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel?

   They baffle me!
   • Robert Guyton 1.1

     6 June 2018 at 6:51 am

     It’s life, Jim, but not as we know it.
   • tc 1.2

     6 June 2018 at 7:08 am

     Let’s see shall we, Bolger’s not unlike Winnie in so far as he seems to want a positive legacy to perhaps act as some form of contrition.

     Age tends to bring out some soul searching on your past.
     • saveNZ 1.2.1

       6 June 2018 at 7:35 am

       If they put in a Nat then their is less vitriol from them later maybe? Bolger is not the worst at least unlike Key, he cares about this countries future longer than 3 years and not just asset stripping and enriching his mates.
       • Ed 1.2.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 7:40 am

         In a show called the 9th Floor last year, he expressed his regrets about the introduction of neoliberalism to the country.
         • saveNZ 1.2.1.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 7:57 am

           Yep, he came across well in 9th Floor. He opened Pandora’s box with neoliberalism, hopefully he finds a way to close it.
           • saveNZ 1.2.1.1.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 8:05 am

             Sadly Bolger is probably safer on neoliberalism than many in Labour who are still fervent believers.
           • solkta 1.2.1.1.1.2

             6 June 2018 at 9:00 am

             It was hardly Bolger who opened the box. In fact he didn’y want to go far enough for his party so they dumped him for Shipley.
       • grantoc 1.2.1.2

         6 June 2018 at 10:29 am

         I suspect Bolger is on some sort of vanity trip. Or perhaps its a redemption trip.
       • Gosman 1.2.1.3

         6 June 2018 at 10:40 am

         Except his involvement is being dismissed by many linked to the National party so that approach looks like it is a non-starter.
   • adam 1.3

     6 June 2018 at 10:48 am

     Did you missed the memo on Liberalism, and the fact that labour are right wing economically Tony Veitch (not etc)?
2. Tamati Tautuhi 2

   6 June 2018 at 6:54 am

   Evidently he is the best person they could find in NZ ?
3. Ed 3

   6 June 2018 at 7:02 am

   The murder of Razan Najar is a war crime.
   And one of the most ghastly aspects of the whole story is that the media ignored it.
   Time for a new media.
   The old media is dead.

   “The War Crime committed against #RazanNajar has gone virtually unremarked amongs our political class and its hireling lickspittle media. Yet on my Twitter alone more than 1m people in not 36 hours have engaged with it. The MSM is a doomed hollowed out shell. This is the future .”

   https://mobile.twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1003338230027247623
   • Anon 3.1

     6 June 2018 at 7:24 am

     Hmm, paranoid rantings don’t tell me anything about this supposed story.
     • Ed 3.1.1

       6 June 2018 at 7:35 am

       Research it then.
       • mauī 3.1.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 8:06 am

         Something tells me Ed that is the last thing Anon will do…
         • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.1.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 8:21 am

           Being spoon-fed by George Galloway isn’t “research”. It’s all very well talking about motes and beams, but what about when there’s a deciduous forest in your eye?
           • Bill 3.1.1.1.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 10:32 am

             Unknown journalist (or was he more a blogger?) might have been killed by Russian interests, and it was ‘grist to the mill’ and therefor front page headline news.

             Unknown medic gets killed in “clashes” or “ongoing slaughter” (depending on perspective) and it gets a whole lot less coverage than front page news.

             I’m guessing that’s the type of contrast Ed was trying to point to.

             I haven’t clicked to the Galloway link, and won’t, because the guy’s a bombastic arse who I generally can’t be bothered with. That said, his personality and my prejudice towards him hasn’t got anything to do with the validity of some point he might be making.

             Is “our” media a busted flush? Many would say that’s the case.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.2

       6 June 2018 at 8:05 am

       Well said Anon. Galloway’s self-serving clickbait is a liability to any cause he inserts himself into.

       Najar’s murder has been condemned by the UN. Article 24 of the Geneva Conventions states:

       Medical personnel exclusively engaged in the search for, or the collection, transport or treatment of the wounded or sick, or in the prevention of disease, staff exclusively engaged in the administration of medical units and establishments, as well as chaplains attached to the armed forces, shall be respected and protected in all circumstances.

       Israel says it was too smoky for the snipers to see what they were shooting at. They think this counts as a defence 🙄
       • lprent 3.1.2.1

         6 June 2018 at 10:28 am

         They have to be kidding!

         Spraying live fire at unarmed civilians is bad enough. But can possibly be justified based on defending borders.

         Killing medics who are clearly marked is quite clearly a criminal act under international law.

         Any soldier who did that should be given a summary court martial and incarcerated. Their commanding officers as well if their instructions led to it.

         Basically it doesn’t sound like the Israeli army are competent or well led. More like a rabble.
         • Gosman 3.1.2.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 10:50 am

           Except the Israeli army is acknowledged as one of the most professional in the World. That isn’t to state they aren’t capable of screwing up monumentally. However they are also well aware of having a force that will follow standards of military discipline.
           • Ad 3.1.2.1.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 11:13 am

             Then the IDF will have no problem putting the perpetrators into a civil court to test their professionalism out.
           • McFlock 3.1.2.1.1.2

             6 June 2018 at 12:22 pm

             They’re also a draftee army.

             It also seems rational to me that they’d have some manner of selecting the troops who go into areas like Gaza and the West Bank – from the regime’s perspective, it’s better to err on the side of “racist psycho nutbar” than “conchy who might even switch sides”.
           • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.1.1.3

             6 June 2018 at 2:28 pm

             Except the Israeli army is acknowledged as one of the most professional in the World.

             Which means that they purposefully carried out a war-crime.
           • Exkiwiforces 3.1.2.1.1.4

             6 June 2018 at 5:54 pm

             Go and educate yourself by reading the Laws of Armed Conflict, because the IA aren’t following the LOAC atm but acting like thugs.
         • Venezia 3.1.2.1.2

           6 June 2018 at 11:06 am

           Lprent….Israeli (Zionist) war crimes supported and paid for by the Donald Trump administration. Either the soldiers are incompetent or this is a clearly orchestrated genocidal strategy. And the world is powerless to take Israel to task.
           • Gosman 3.1.2.1.2.1

             6 June 2018 at 12:34 pm

             Given the fact that the Palestinian population in both Gaza and the West Bank has grown hugely since 1967 it isn’t a terribly effective genocidal strategy if it is being followed by the Israelis.
             • Stuart Munro …

               6 June 2018 at 4:54 pm

               Headline:

               “Incompetent Genocide Is Okay” – Gosman.
     • You_Fool 3.1.3

       6 June 2018 at 8:06 am

       To help Ed make his point
       https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44343263

       “Thousands of Palestinians have attended the funeral in Gaza of a volunteer medic who was killed by Israeli fire during protests on the border. Razan al-Najar, 21, was shot dead as she ran towards the border fence on Friday to help a casualty, Palestinian health officials said.”

       Shooting a (clearly uniformed) medic is a war crime. the IDF says they are looking into the incident, for as much as that is worth. No outcome has been reported yet.
       • McFlock 3.1.3.1

         6 June 2018 at 12:26 pm

         Ah. cheers for that.

         Man, the IDF fucks me off.
       • greywarshark 3.1.3.2

         6 June 2018 at 1:01 pm

         Israelis need aid please. Glasses to wear for their eyesight, so they stop making a spectacle of themselves. It’s ugly to see what they do. Haven’t they any pride in their country? Now they have it they are letting their army which consists of their young people mainly, learn brutalising attitudes and commit crimes, and the memory of those they will carry throughout their lives.
   • Baba Yaga 3.2

     6 June 2018 at 12:48 pm

     A war crime committed by those calling themselves ‘palestinians’, but who really are just terrorist stooges. The solution is simple. Stop throwing bombs at Israel, and the retaliation will stop.
     • You_Fool 3.2.1

       6 June 2018 at 3:36 pm

       So shooting a uniformed medical worker is ok?
     • One Two 3.2.2

       6 June 2018 at 3:42 pm

       Those calling themselves ‘semites’

       FIFY
     • Exkiwiforces 3.2.3

       6 June 2018 at 5:50 pm

       You need to go and read up the on the Laws of Armed Conflict to enlighten your so-called wisdom that shoot unarmed civilians is justified just because they Palestinians. The IA have turned themselves into a bunch of Thugs because any half decent Army would not shoot unarmed civilians throwing stones 300m away because it’s against the rules of LOAC.
     • North 3.2.4

       6 June 2018 at 6:40 pm

       Little stones picked up off the ground and thrown over a fence by the hands of youths is sufficient to draw murderous Israeli live fire. You can forget about bombs.

       Quite right of course. How dare those sub-human Palestinian youths throw stones…..snort snort ! ! !

       The formerly oppressed now the oppressor. For 70 years.
       • Gabby 3.2.4.1

         6 June 2018 at 6:51 pm

         From a practical standpoint it would be sensible not to throw stones at people who evidently enjoy shooting you northy.
         • Muttonbird 3.2.4.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 6:55 pm

           Back in the barracks these IDF pups will be hailed as heroes of the Jewish state.
         • North 3.2.4.1.2

           6 June 2018 at 7:13 pm

           Of course you’re right Gabb. Just as it would have been far more sensible for Nelson Mandela never to have said a word. And for Jewish people in Nazi Germany to have falsely disported a ravenous taste for bratwurst with their sauerkraut.
           • Baba Yaga 3.2.4.1.2.1

             7 June 2018 at 1:20 pm

             The Nazi’s here are the Palestinian leaders. Israel have a right to exist, and yet their borders have been under attack since they were re-formed as a modern nation. There is no other country in the world who has to defend itself so often against neighbouring terrorism. The Palestinians continue to elect terrorists. They will continue to pay the price.
             • One Two …

               7 June 2018 at 10:03 pm

               No other group has been kicked out of so many countries…

               Each time, a misunderstanding…

               Are you a paid agitator who doesn’t know that Adolf was in fact _______
               • Baba Yaga …

                 8 June 2018 at 12:28 pm

                 “No other group has been kicked out of so many countries…”

                 Careful, your anti Semitism is showing!
       • Baba Yaga 3.2.4.2

         7 June 2018 at 1:18 pm

         ‘Little stones’? You mean thousands of rockets fired over decades by people sadly manipulated by murderous hamas terrorists. Don’t mess with the Israeli’s and their right to exist. They fight back. As they damn well should.
     • adam 3.2.5

       7 June 2018 at 12:46 am

       “A war crime committed by those calling themselves ‘palestinians’, but who really are just terrorist stooges.”

       DO I REALLY NEED TO READ THIS RACIST CRAP ON THE STANDARD?

       Seriously dude, you are a racist scumbag. I’d suggest some quiet reflection and some soul searching, but your idiocy would probably be a real blocker on that.
       • Baba Yaga 3.2.5.1

         8 June 2018 at 12:29 pm

         Calling terrorists “terrorists” is not racist. Labelling all Palestinians terrorists, now that would be racist.
4. Ed 4

   6 June 2018 at 7:07 am

   Isn’t Key the boss at ANZ?

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12065040
   • Tamati Tautuhi 4.1

     6 June 2018 at 7:26 am

     ANZ in NZ has been found to be corruption free according to MSM ?
     • Ed 4.1.1

       6 June 2018 at 7:36 am

       As Rachel Stewart says, the banks have learnt nothing from 2008.
     • adam 4.1.2

       6 June 2018 at 10:51 am

       ANZ corruption free, yeah right…
   • saveNZ 4.2

     6 June 2018 at 8:24 am

     Go Ozzies… that is why in NZ they always employ ex MP’s/PM’s on the board so they don’t get investigated…
     • dukeofurl 4.2.1

       6 June 2018 at 9:09 am

       Key wasnt with them when the cartel was operating for the share raising in 2015.

       Since they would have known about the pending action for some time, Im sure his deal making skills will be used to try and extricate themselves from this tricky situation.

       To give some background:
       Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions (CDPP) on Friday flagged it would launch a criminal case alleging ANZ and its investment bankers came to “an arrangement or understanding” about how 25.5 million shares, worth $789.2 million, would be sold after they failed to find buyers during the capital raising process. -AFR

       Essentially ANZ executives along with the big international banks/vampire squids Deutsche Bank and Citigroup tried to rig the trading in ANZ shares after the placement fell short and they were left holding the baby and the bathwater.

       JP Morgan seems to have cooperated with the DPP in the investigation, otherwise would be in the dock too.
       Their defence seems to be : we do as we please and everyone else does it like this as well, the law be dammed and we can screw the little shareholders in favour of the big boys like we allways have.
       • greywarshark 4.2.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 1:05 pm

         I think I read that Deutsche Bank’s rating has dropped to junk status, BBB or something?
         • Jeremy 4.2.1.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 6:06 pm

           not far away from junk status, with a negative outlook:
           https://www.db.com/ir/en/current-ratings.htm
   • Cinny 4.3

     6 June 2018 at 9:13 am

     They said at the time it was a good fit for key, no bloody wonder lolz.
5. gsays 5

   6 June 2018 at 7:23 am

   As a southerly winter blast rolls up the island, my thoughts go out to weka.
   I trust she is safe, warm and happy.
   I have missed your contributions of late.
   • saveNZ 5.1

     6 June 2018 at 7:37 am

     Yes, hope Weka is safe and well.
     • Antoine 5.1.1

       6 June 2018 at 8:05 am

       +1
       • dukeofurl 5.1.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 8:42 am

         probably still contributing. but not on blogs
         • Antoine 5.1.1.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 9:08 am

           Well said.
   • Puckish Rogue 5.2

     6 June 2018 at 9:41 am

     Indeed, one of the more balanced contributors to this site
6. Ed 6

   6 June 2018 at 7:33 am

   “Bolger working group could take NZ back to 70s, National warns”

   You mean take New Zealand back to a time of full employment and affordable housing ?
   An era when there were no beggars on the streets, kids weren’t starving, levels of inequality were far less, the country was not owned by foreign interests?

   Those terrible 70s…….
   • saveNZ 6.1

     6 June 2018 at 7:42 am

     Good one, Ed! Yes the new right neoliberal worst fears, full employment and not selling off the country to multinational mates for progress… starvation and homelessness is welcomed by the new right… they can then get some social bonds going and private prisons to make even more money from the problems they cause, and off high rise housing slum builds, oh I mean estates.
     • gsays 6.1.1

       6 June 2018 at 10:28 am

       Yep, when one wage was enough to raise a family.
   • chris73 6.2

     6 June 2018 at 7:43 am

     Yup…the 70s when being gay was against the law, domestic abuse was no ones business, you stayed married for the kids, maori rights (what maori rights), drink drivings sweet as

     I mean if we’re cherry picking and all
     • You_Fool 6.2.1

       6 June 2018 at 8:09 am

       And none of those have anything to do with employment laws? We can have better employment and an economy that works for everyone and not the privileged few, but not give up our progress in social benefits
       • Enough is Enough 6.2.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 11:14 am

         Partly True

         Female participation in the workforce was a hell of a lot lower than now. All those 1970s “housewives” did not earn an income, but were never recorded as unemployed.
         • greywarshark 6.2.1.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 1:11 pm

           When a wife went to work in those days, her salary would be extra for the joint income and by living cheaply they could soon save a deposit for a house and the money was a great boost to them both and boosted their standard of living. Now, it helps pay for the electricity bill and the car payments so that they can get to work, the doctor, the school, take the kids to sport, if they can afford that etc.
           • mary_a 6.2.1.1.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 6:54 pm

             greywarshark (6.2.1.1.1) … True.

             The early 70s also had man of the ordinary Kiwi Big Norm as our PM, albeit far too briefly.

             Poor Norm must be turning in his grave to see what neo liberalism has done to his beloved working class!

             RIP Norm. You were the best.
             • greywarshark …

               6 June 2018 at 7:40 pm

               mary_a
               Yes Big Norm. He seemed a good guy. But I seem to remember he wouldn’t look after his health, see the doctor. Rod Donald went early too. Sad. And good you responded. I think I’ll take a break at present but the last comment I’ll keep in mind is in agreement.
     • bwaghorn 6.2.2

       6 June 2018 at 10:55 am

       Back then we would have called you retarded now we call you special
   • Tamati Tautuhi 6.3

     6 June 2018 at 7:55 am

     We were ranked in the top 5 in the OECD in the 1970’s I think we are now 28th ?
     • saveNZ 6.3.1

       6 June 2018 at 8:03 am

       Yes, we may be only 28 in the OECD, but luckily Richard Prebbles tractors are safe now that we don’t have usable train services in most places for the imaginary tractors to fall off from. We just have what few trains we have working, derailing from the Chinese steel and faulty materials and labour, bit like the leaky buildings when they used mostly Ozzy timber that was untreated for our house frames, after they closed many timber mills in NZ, while forgetting we don’t live in a desert. That solved it! sarcasm.
     • Puckish Rogue 6.3.2

       6 June 2018 at 8:13 am

       If Labour can get Great Britain to buy all our produce (why we were ranked top three) like in the 70s they’ll have my vote for life
       • saveNZ 6.3.2.1

         6 June 2018 at 8:29 am

         Winnie’s working on it PR. But I think that boat has sailed.

         Now we don’t have to worry about exports because we sold the farms for export and/or gold bricks, instead of the milk, lamb, Kiwifruit and butter.

         Don’t worry there’s a great business opportunity in China…..if you lose money, try again, and again, oh and probably again…
         • Puckish Rogue 6.3.2.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 8:32 am

           The boat has sailed so i don’t think harking back to 70s is useful, yeah it’d be nice to get there but the world has changed
           • One Anonymous Bloke 6.3.2.1.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 8:55 am

             That’s right: some places have moved forwards whilst we’ve gone backwards, as the World Bank and IMF have quantified. Who could have predicted that throwing people on the scrap-heap, shitting on them and then blaming them for it would result in lost productivity?

             Oh, that’s right, all the people who predicted it.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               6 June 2018 at 9:18 am

               We were in an artificially inflated position thanks to subsidies, once those subsidies were ended NZ ended up in its rightful place, in fact NZ is doing better then could be expected given our location and small population
               • McFlock …

                 6 June 2018 at 12:49 pm

                 We’re slightly below the global half-way in population, and have disproportionately wealthy and lush natural resources.

                 We ain’t a superpower, but we ain’t exactly little battlers, either.
           • AB 6.3.2.1.1.2

             6 June 2018 at 10:16 am

             Yeah – who needs the 1970’s when you can be rolled back to the 1890’s?
         • Tamati Tautuhi 6.3.2.1.2

           6 June 2018 at 9:34 am

           Most of our productive assets are being bought up by offshore investors.
       • One Anonymous Bloke 6.3.2.2

         6 June 2018 at 8:34 am

         Your premise (that we are now worse off in terms of trade and the profits thereof) is a lie: the pie is bigger, it just isn’t being shared as equitably.
         • Puckish Rogue 6.3.2.2.1

           6 June 2018 at 8:51 am

           So these other countries should just give us money, we should be subsidised is what you’re saying?
           • One Anonymous Bloke 6.3.2.2.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 8:57 am

             Yes, that’s what I’m saying. No, wait, sorry I misspoke. It’s just you demonstrating that you can’t argue your position without resorting to bullshit strawmen.

             Pathetic, but we’re used to it.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               6 June 2018 at 9:03 am

               No whats pathetic is the left saying the pie isn’t being shared yet have no problem with industries that produce things people want being hobbled
               • One Anonymous Bloke …

                 6 June 2018 at 9:06 am

                 As the World Bank and IMF have quantified, business is being “hobbled” by the hollowing out of the middle class and the human rights abuses perpetrated against the lowest quintile.

                 Lost productivity is lost productivity, no matter how much you twist and squeal and betray your betters.
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   6 June 2018 at 9:15 am

                   Bollix. Trade not aid is the way to increase everything positive you want.
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     6 June 2018 at 9:17 am

                     Lost productivity, Wormtongue.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     6 June 2018 at 9:21 am

                     Trade, pleb.
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     6 June 2018 at 9:34 am

                     Colonial economic model – exploiting rather than upskilling – hence the hordes of cheap labourers.

                     It’s far to say the Right never had a fucking clue how to grow the economy – but then it was only cash in their own pockets they ever cared about.
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     6 June 2018 at 9:43 am

                     Well if you don’t like it you could head to *insert any number of s**t hole socialist countries here* and see how well it works for you
                   • saveNZ …

                     6 June 2018 at 10:21 am

                     Sadly they got confused and gave aid to trade not the other way around.
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     6 June 2018 at 12:28 pm

                     “*insert any number of s**t hole socialist countries here*”

                     Thing is, we don’t have to. NZ had it better than these before it swallowed this Rockstar lie about Gnat economic competence and worked for the public instead of sleazy corporates. It’s a model proven to work here, albeit without gifting Mazeratis to braindead morons like Hoskings or unearned millions to Key.
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     6 June 2018 at 2:08 pm

                     All you have to do now is explain how you came by the fatuous notion that I’m anti trade. Yes, numb-nuts, that’s the “strawman” I referred to earlier.
       • lprent 6.3.2.3

         6 June 2018 at 10:32 am

         I think that you are temporally disconnected.

         That appears to be the 1960s that you are describing.
   • millsy 6.4

     6 June 2018 at 9:52 am

     The music was better too. Right across the spectrum, nice mellow lush sounds. Though vinyl as a playback medium is considerably overrated.
     • solkta 6.4.1

       6 June 2018 at 10:40 am

       Do you not remember Disco? *shudders as cold sensation travels up spine

       There was some good music in the 70s but there was a huge amount of crap also. Just like most decades really.
       • Draco T Bastard 6.4.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 2:33 pm

         There was some good music in the 70s but there was a huge amount of crap also.

         That’s true of every decade.
     • adam 6.4.2

       6 June 2018 at 10:54 am

       NAh, NAh, NAhhhh
7. saveNZ 7

   6 June 2018 at 7:50 am

   I don’t think that is what most people want to bring back from the 1970’s, you know progress taking the good and making it better. Sadly in NZ for many, we have gone backwards a lot of other areas.

   As for Maori rights, with TPPA and their voting power being quietly diminished while being in coalition with the Nat via lazy immigration and no voting in prison with 3 strikes laws , I think there is a new onslaught of power imbalances for Maori they should be looking out for.

   Yesterday the oil was an interesting example if they sue or not. Same is going to happen with TPPA which Labour and National and NZ First signed and it aint gonna be pretty.

   How much money do Maori have to defend lawsuits? It’s Treaty of Waiting betrayal all over again with corporations and a bunch of lawyers deciding the outcomes based on their views.
   • solkta 7.1

     6 June 2018 at 8:13 am

     How much money do Maori have to defend lawsuits?

     Who is suing Maori? What has this got to do with the TPPA?
     • saveNZ 7.1.1

       6 June 2018 at 8:34 am

       Newsflash, ISDS stil in there Solka… that means that if Maori or anyone else tries to stop some corporations profits they will be in international court fighting it out… not NZ.
       • solkta 7.1.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 9:05 am

         After all this time you still don’t understand what you are complaining about. Maori entities cannot be sued under ISDS. ISDS is a mechanism by which governments can be sued when they change the rules.
         • saveNZ 7.1.1.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 9:13 am

           Yes, but under the treaty many Maori signed up for dual rule with the British and retaining sovereignty or at least dual sovereignty over the assets… not private exploitation and government rules and overseas tribunals to support that.
           • solkta 7.1.1.1.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 9:44 am

             You were talking about Maori being sued and whether they have the money to fight this in court, how would that happen under TPPA? Who is suing Maori over oil?
8. ScottGN 8

   6 June 2018 at 8:40 am

   I see Councillor Mike Lee has taken his obsessive opposition to the proposed Britomart to Airport Light Rail to a new level and formed a lobby group to push for a heavy rail express link. They have taken aim at the “slow” journey time (about 40-45 minutes) that light rail will provide, but we know from some excellent work at Greater Auckland that light rail compares favourably with heavy rail journey times and may even be a bit quicker. They also fail to mention the sizeable cost of the heavy rail option and the likelihood that it will require ongoing substantial subsidies to run.

   https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2018/05/08/calculating-travel-times/

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/104412552/transport-minister-phil-twyford-says-light-rail-not-primarily-for-tourists
   • saveNZ 8.1

     6 June 2018 at 9:26 am

     Hey, ScottGN you should be on the committee for the fake Meth rules that just evicted 1000’s of vulnerable people with fake science and reports and using a dedicated committee approach that already had the answers.

     Aka tell everyone that Trams stopping and taking not just airport traffic but normal passengers too, will be faster and take more passengers than dedicated services and then complain if someone who is actually an elected MP disputes this bizarre finding of a dysfunctional organisation.

     One of the biggest flaws of our pathetic public transport system is how slow it is, most people can’t waste an extra 2 hours a day supporting dysfunctional AT who already take up 54% of everyone’s rates! Just two stages already takes about 3 times longer than a car. I hate to think how long an airport journey will be combined with already peak passenger traffic.

     Since if you put in a journey from Pt Chev to central Auckland into AT it takes 45 minutes it is hard to work out how it’s the same time from the airport which is much further away????

     Of course those who are part of AT or their support groups often live in Wellington or central Auckland so they don’t exactly worry about what happens to the majority of people not living their lovely transport free life and just have to worry about taxing out everyone else off the roads and out of the city via rates, so they can get to their Bach up North or in Coromandel quicker.
     • ScottGN 8.1.1

       6 June 2018 at 10:41 am

       Hey saveNZ, I don’t think I quite deserved your diatribe and, frankly, trying to conflate the transit issue with the fiasco at Housing NZ is a pretty cheap shot.

       A few questions for you.
       Do you think the heavy rail airport express trains are going to be able to zoom along the track from Britomart to Puhinui at 100+ Ks an hour or are they going to have to share the same line as the lumbering commuter trains you complain about and other trains that use the network currently?
       Or do you think we should build a dedicated line all the way through? Rather than just the spur from Puhinui to the airport? How much would that cost?
       Do you think there are enough passengers going to the central city, as opposed to all the other places in Auckland that airport passengers might want to go to, to justify that cost? How much would a ticket cost? And how much subsidy would each ticket require?
       Are you aware that, for example, both Sydney and Toronto, cities much larger than Auckland have found the ongoing cost of maintaining their respective airport express services so steep they’ve each considered shutting down the service?
       Have you ever been on the Heathrow Express? Sure it’s faster than the Piccadilly Line but it’s over £25 (or $50) one way and consequently nearly always pretty empty, in fact it sounds a lot like your gold plated highways for rich folks to take to their baches.
       • greywarshark 8.1.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 11:44 am

         I can see you people have your minds exercised about this railway. But mine is a bit sluggish.
         Facts I have gained.
         1 Mike Lee who has been a stalwart in doing the best for Auckland against the fancy throwaway ideas of neolib nuts has ideas not favoured by you ScottGN.
         2 He and others favour a heavy rail express link from Britomart to Airport. This will likely be as fast as light rail.
         3 It may cost more to build, and require substantial subsidies to operate it? I am wondering about this.
         (3a My thought – what happens to heavy rail now? Would this new heavy/light rail replace another? Would it impede the travel and frequency of people going to the airport – that would be a major disadvantage?)
         3b (Further – how much longer in time would it take to build a heavy express line over what a light express line would take? How much more money? – It seems that while the earthworks and inconvenience is present for light, it would be better to take the opportunity to spend a little more and get a line of bigger capacity which would be preparing for future need now.)

         I think that the report from Auckland Transport that you give a link to, finishes with what I consider a statement showing muddled thinking. It says:
         after all we’re trying to build a PT (public transport) network that is useful to a lot of people, not just one that provides an express service to one location. I thought that the particular priority is to get people to and from the airport, the gateway at present, to Auckland city, as fast as reasonable. Therefore I think that sentence should spell this out like this:
         we’re trying to build a PT network that provides a service to the airport, that is reliable and also in a reasonable, reliable time possibly an express service at least en route to the airport, which also provides services to as many people as possible.

         (This may take the form of an express service, or perhaps with one stop, to the airport and a fast service with more stops, going to the city when the time period is not inflexible.
         or From further reading it would be slowed down by present heavy freight trains?
         and commuter trains, so not practical for fast access to airport. And also the airport travellers would have to get off at Puhini and onto a bus, is that the idea?
         But a light rail link could be an express on another line, either to Puhini or direct to airport?)

         It is a bit confusing. So if anyone wishes to enlighten me if they could go down my comment in order of numbering and pondering at bottom it would help.
         • Sacha 8.1.1.1.1

           6 June 2018 at 3:07 pm

           I can really recommend reading through some of the posts on the topic at Greater Auckland – very thorough: https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/?s=airport

           If you go back some years they were originally in favour of heavy rail but were talked around by the arguments in favour of the tram route – which forms part of another complementary regional network that does not subtract from train capacity.
           • greywarshark 8.1.1.1.1.1

             6 June 2018 at 4:06 pm

             Thanks Sacha
             I am relying on what the experts say. I made myself sit and read through the links this morning but haven’t time to research it. I have been looking at Gisborne and the political and environmental situation there for a few days. And have to limit my time on the computer.
             I guess you know how it can eat up your day.
             • Sacha …

               6 June 2018 at 6:03 pm

               It can be quite technical stuff, yes. And the day job gets in the way. 🙂
         • Tamati Tautuhi 8.1.1.1.2

           7 June 2018 at 3:56 am

           A lot of very muddled thinking coming out of AT and Central Government on Auckland Transport Problems ?
       • saveNZ 8.1.1.2

         6 June 2018 at 7:43 pm

         Firstly the line from the airport should be met by the travellers using the airport in an airport tax on visitors not the rate payers many of who are not benefiting from all the tourists, quite the opposite they are being caught up in massive congestion and forced to pay petrol taxes and high rates.

         The days when hotels and so forth are NZ owned and operated are long gone, so have the taxes and the jobs for locals in that industry. Look around our hotel chains are not locally owned or operated now, like many of the cafes and tourist industries and quite a few of them just seem to be scams for immigration to bring cheap workers into Auckland that the workers probably pay for the job. $20k is the going rate apparently.

         I have lived all around the world and well used to decent transport from airports. NZ has one of the worst trips from the airport public transport wise, in my view and that is why most people drive it.

         You don’t need to use the Healthrow express in many cases because they also have tubes leaving every 2 minutes and transfers from all parts of the city and country going within minutes too. That is why they can move the volumes of people.

         And I don’t have an opinion of what is the best solution but I would back Mike Lee decision making skills any day over AT who are idiots. AT are incompetent and deliver poor service and they are getting more incompetent and more arrogant. They can’t even synchronise with their own board that is how dysfunctional they are.

         If a corporation is frightened of somebody questioning them, and trying to close debate down or influence blogs and so forth, that is why there is the problem. AT is a monopoly that is run like a fiefdom with the public being forced to pay for their bad decisions and service.
   • Bearded Git 8.2

     6 June 2018 at 11:35 am

     The key thing for airport users/travelers is not the 40-45 minutes journey time (which is fine) but that they can jump on a nice, reliable, regular tram/light rail service at a station(s) in the centre of Akl and get to the airport.

     So go light-rail; let’s do this.
     • OnceWasTim 8.2.1

       6 June 2018 at 12:14 pm

       “So go light-rail; let’s do this.”

       yes, as a first step. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but it seems it was built a damn sight faster than anything to do with public transport in Auckers

       But while we’re doing it, let’s not preclude further options such as eventually having a ‘heavy rail’ loop link to Auckland Airport – which after all serves more regional needs.

       Some things to consider:
       -light rail rolling stock could run on heavy rail, not so the other way round.
       -Hamilton/TeAwamutu are gearing up as a major freight hub
       -Ports of Oakland is a big fuckup and probably isn’t going to last other than to provide Oaklanders with pissy little treats and trinkets from the third world. Besides, there are too many urban libs concerned about the destruction of their harbour (and rightly so) to allow intensification of freight movements. Pesky little oil depots, and car import depots are such a hassle.
       -Appropriate rolling stock could run on existing heavy rail between centres (such as)
       Auckland-Hamilton; Auckland-Rotorua; New Plymouth-Stratford’; Masterton to Wellington; TePuke/Pangaroa-Tauranga; Tauranga-Airport; Auckland-Airport, and many others including the South Island.
       but for the fact we think in terms of traditional light versus heavy.

       But…..whatever. Go for it.
       • Sacha 8.2.1.1

         6 June 2018 at 3:09 pm

         Light rail is not just about the rolling stock, and it’s not a halfway step to heavy rail. Their rails can handle steeper slopes and tighter corners.
9. Cinny 9

   6 June 2018 at 9:11 am

   Yes we should ban single use plastic bags among other things.

   Down here we aren’t waiting for a law change, Motueka may be a small town, but the anti plastic movement is strong here, be the change you want to see in the world.

   Kudos Steph and Megan 🙂

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/ripple-effect-has-been-amazing-motueka-inspiring-rest-new-zealand-solutions-cut-down-plastic-bags-disposable-coffee-cups

   Interestingly Celcius coffees largest customer base are workmen, yes men in fluro vests with muddy boots, doing their part to help the environment by not using throw away coffee cups. Love this town 🙂
10. millsy 10

    6 June 2018 at 9:23 am

    No homelessness in the 1970’s by the way.
    • saveNZ 10.1

      6 June 2018 at 9:28 am

      Apparently in the 1970’s so few unemployed aka a handful of people that their version of WINZ knew them all by name.
      • Puckish Rogue 10.1.1

        6 June 2018 at 9:33 am

        Sounds like something Robert Muldoon once said, if memory serves
        • Barfly 10.1.1.1

          6 June 2018 at 10:23 am

          It’s paraphrasing Holyoake not Muldoon – get that head checked
          • Arthur 10.1.1.1.1

            6 June 2018 at 11:16 am

            I always understood it to be a quote from Tom Shand one time Minister of Labour
    • Tamati Tautuhi 10.2

      6 June 2018 at 9:32 am

      Car are cheaper these days and less costly than real estate in Auckland
      • saveNZ 10.2.1

        6 June 2018 at 10:38 am

        A valid point, cars are cheaper to live in than houses. With the new petrol charges, maybe the new trade deal will be we offshore the NZ poor to China/India and they live there while the middle class and wealthy Chinese come to NZ… sounds far fetched but who could have predicted the state of affairs now with globalism and now we have some of the biggest NZ homeless in OZ as well as our own country while being told how great everything is by the economists? The real poor have to go somewhere, and they are being pushed very firmly out of Auckland and told to go to the provinces.

        Britain has pretty much closed it’s doors to NZ too. As the cost of living in NZ gets more expensive and we get richer people who don’t pay taxes and more poorer people who don’t pay taxes, where does the money come from as more and more people need subsidies just to live even or forced out by certain percentage seem to be living in modern million dollar homes in Auckland with zero to little income?

        If we have a look at Auckland council, apparently 50% of the total rates tax take is predicted next year to be just on themselves. So if currently 54% of rates goes to AT, figures ain’t looking too promising as Auckland council look to PPP’s to pretend it’s all not happening and their massive ‘construction’ boom to continue to keep the Ponzi they collaborated with the Natz on, and our productivity even lower with their actions.

        Increasing inequality and the cause of the problems somehow controlling the ‘problems’ are finding new ways to profit from it.

        Even the F-in g Meth took money from the poor and middle class of NZ and rerouted into the real estate industry. In fact Real Estate of NZ apparently was on the committee for the standards!
        • Tamati Tautuhi 10.2.1.1

          6 June 2018 at 12:44 pm

          MSM still talking about Bill English the architect of the “Rockstar Economy” ?
          • ianmac 10.2.1.1.1

            6 June 2018 at 3:21 pm

            “Rock-Star Economy” was a quote from an Aussie journalist about NZ but said in jest I think.
        • greywarshark 10.2.1.2

          6 June 2018 at 2:32 pm

          Cars better to live in – I wondered why there were so many people movers around. I thought they just cluttered the place, but in fact they are emergency caravans. The freedom campers R’US.
        • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1.3

          6 June 2018 at 2:56 pm

          A valid point, cars are cheaper to live in than houses.

          Probably better for you and more comfortable than some of the rotting housing stock that we have as well.
      • mauī 10.2.2

        6 June 2018 at 11:58 am

        Interestingly cars in relative terms were cheaper in the 1970’s than today: http://wgntv.com/2016/04/25/the-average-car-now-costs-25449-how-much-was-a-car-the-year-you-were-born/

        It says in the US in the 70’s the average car cost was US$21.000-22,000 (adjusted to today’s prices), while today it costs US$ 25,000-26,000.
    • Puckish Rogue 10.3

      6 June 2018 at 9:47 am

      Try taking off your rose coloured glasses

      https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/research-papers/document/00PLEcoRP14021/homelessness-in-new-zealand

      ‘By the late 1950s, Wellington’s housing needs were identified as ‘particularly acute’. In the 1960s voluntary organisations recorded a gradual increase in some groups experiencing housing difficulties. The Christchurch Methodist Church night shelter found that their main users were employed people who could not afford other accommodation, unmarried women with children, and those leaving homes because of domestic violence also increasingly sought shelter.’

      In 1975, the Housing Corporation referred to the ‘serious effects’ of a housing shortage with ‘many situations of overcrowding’, and a 1979 pilot survey of Auckland found that numerous people did not have access to adequate housing.’
      • Barfly 10.3.1

        6 June 2018 at 10:27 am

        Comparing apples with cucumbers I see – those report writers from way back then would not have been able to conceive (in their worst nightmares) how truly fucked up the housing situation is now.
    • indiana 10.4

      6 June 2018 at 10:12 am

      The only good thing about the 1970’s, was the release of the first Star Wars movie…we had to wait until 1978 before NZ saw it.
      • ScottGN 10.4.1

        6 June 2018 at 10:57 am

        It was released in NZ December 77 for xmas holidays same time as the UK.
        • indiana 10.4.1.1

          6 June 2018 at 11:16 am

          It was released May 15, 1977 in the US….still 6 months before the UK or NZ saw it. Do we want life to be like that again?
          • Tamati Tautuhi 10.4.1.1.1

            6 June 2018 at 12:46 pm

            Star Wars movies are way more important than housing ?
          • Draco T Bastard 10.4.1.1.2

            6 June 2018 at 2:39 pm

            Why does it even bother you? Seeing it earlier doesn’t actually make it any better.
11. greywarshark 11

    6 June 2018 at 1:39 pm

    Terry Pratchett on religion – enjoyable – he is enjoying some red wine while he speaks.
    
    • ianmac 11.1

      6 June 2018 at 3:27 pm

      “We have a tendency to good. People who are left to their own without undue pressure are really quite nice. ”
      Well said Terry.
      • Grafton Gully 11.1.1

        6 June 2018 at 8:03 pm

        19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath ; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless.
        20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.
        Ecclesiastes 3: 19-20
12. James 12

    6 June 2018 at 5:13 pm

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2018/06/sir-bob-jones-files-defamation-action-after-petition-for-knighthood-to-be-revoked-report.html

    Bob Jones files defamation action against petitioner.

    Interesting – but it should come as no surprise (he did say he was going to do it).

    The more who signed is only going to increase his payout.
    • Muttonbird 12.1

      6 June 2018 at 5:18 pm

      She will get massive support from a wide section of society and from the law community to fight this arsehole.

      It will put him in his grave.
      • AsleepWhileWalking 12.1.1

        6 June 2018 at 5:20 pm

        Where is the Give a Little?
        • James 12.1.1.1

          6 June 2018 at 7:18 pm

          No doubt next to ecomaoris – I think with support from people here he raised $5
          • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1.1.1.1

            6 June 2018 at 10:36 pm

            Fascinating, agitated James doing schadenfreude again – must be an envious lefty.
      • James 12.1.2

        6 June 2018 at 7:17 pm

        Mwahahahaha Lefties tend to stop their support when they have to put their hands in their pockets
        • Muttonbird 12.1.2.1

          6 June 2018 at 7:40 pm

          And for righties support for others is a foreign concept altogether, monetary or otherwise.

          MS Maihi did get 68,000 signatures on her petition…
          • James 12.1.2.1.1

            6 June 2018 at 8:13 pm

            Nonsense. I support jones on this one. 4 million didn’t sign it.
            • Muttonbird 12.1.2.1.1.1

              6 June 2018 at 8:25 pm

              That’s not an indication of support for Jones. If it were then you’d also have to admit that 3.5 million not voting National last election was a total rejection of them.

              I’ve no doubt that you do support Jones on this because you are a racist too.
              • James …

                6 June 2018 at 9:10 pm

                No I support jones bacause silly little people like this need to be taught a lesson.

                Hope she has deep pockets.
                • solkta …

                  6 June 2018 at 9:18 pm

                  I thought it was the racist arsehole who needed to be taught a lesson.
                  • James …

                    6 June 2018 at 9:43 pm

                    You do know it’s comments like yours that he can give as evidence when he’s asking for damages right ?
                    • solkta …

                      7 June 2018 at 7:06 am

                      What is in dispute? Racist or arsehole? Plenty of evidence for both.

                      You can add misogynistic pig as well just to keep it rounded.
                • AB …

                  6 June 2018 at 9:36 pm

                  “silly little people”
                  There are people like Sir Bob (and James) and then there are little people.
                  Little people are not to voice opinions on matters that are clearly in the public domain and of public interest, they are to be cowed and threatened by the asymmetric power available to the rich.
                  Says it all really, natural authoritarians always out themselves.
                  • James …

                    6 June 2018 at 9:46 pm

                    Of course they can opinion views on whatever the like.

                    But say something about a person and if they consider it libel – then they are entitled to have their day in court.
                    • Drowsy M. Kram …

                      6 June 2018 at 10:48 pm

                      ‘Legacy‘ Jones is a national ‘treasure’, struggling for relevance – seem remarkably thin-skinned for a wealthy person.

                      Maybe he’ll fare better than the Hagamans – is he richer?
                    • DB …

                      7 June 2018 at 6:02 am

                      James you are clearly a piece of shit.
                    • James []

                      7 June 2018 at 8:56 am

                      DB keeping it classy as always.
                • Stuart Munro …

                  7 June 2018 at 10:13 pm

                  You support Jones because he’s a fellow traveler.

                  A turd who wants to act like a young turk but be called a peer of the realm. Can’t have it both ways – either he’s respectable, in which case he doesn’t author racists rants, or he’s a shitbird, no title for him.
    • AsleepWhileWalking 12.2

      6 June 2018 at 5:19 pm

      How is any of this defamatory? He’s just proved again what an ass he is. The petition showed people see him as an ass – how specifically has that affected him?

      Even this quote defines his assishness

      [Whale Oil] “I’m delighted to report that my libel writ has been served on Maihi. Now it’s my turn.”
      • Muttonbird 12.2.1

        6 June 2018 at 6:05 pm

        He had his turn in the NBR. Looks like he doesn’t know when to give up.
    • Stunned mullet 12.3

      6 June 2018 at 6:00 pm

      Should be a good laugh, I might pop up to watch if it’s in Auckland.
13. mosa 13

    6 June 2018 at 8:15 pm

    POOR KIWI LIVES MATTER !!!!
14. Tamati Tautuhi 14

    7 June 2018 at 4:08 am

    Bob Jones the Perrenial Racist winding the show up again, I might just go to the Court Case for an afternoon’s entertainment, or maybe TV One could screen it live ?
    • Stunned mullet 14.1

      7 June 2018 at 6:30 am

      How is Jones racist ? It was quite obvious to all but the most literal that his piece in the NBR was satire and even if it wasn’t it could perhaps be considered somewhat bigoted, I find people throw the racism accusation about very freely these days.
      • Tamati Tautuhi 14.1.1

        7 June 2018 at 7:30 am

        So if Hone Harawira stated “that poor Maori’s should start eating white people again is not a racist statement ? “.
        • adam 14.1.1.1

          7 June 2018 at 7:34 am

          After being properly cured first, one should follow OHS on this. 🙂
          • stunned mullet 14.1.1.1.1

            7 June 2018 at 7:54 am

            😆
        • Stunned Mullet 14.1.1.2

          7 June 2018 at 7:53 am

          Ha, nope it’s not racist at all.
          • Tamati Tautuhi 14.1.1.2.1

            7 June 2018 at 8:04 am

            Anyway they prefer KFC and McDonald’s these days, they reckon the pakeha’s were a bit tough and salty.
            • solkta 14.1.1.2.1.1

              7 June 2018 at 8:07 am

              Aahhh, but have they tried Kentucky Fried Pakeha?
      • saveNZ 14.1.2

        7 June 2018 at 11:34 am

        Most people these days seem to have lost their sense of humour and satire is indeed lost to them. They see everything in literal terms only, no matter how clear it is that someone is taking the piss.

        Bizarrely too, it has become a white wannabe celebrity thing to overcompensate on racism especially on TV panels. Saw some show where the panel was overtaken by a white person complaining about other white people’s racism and everyone was white apart from one women of colour who barely got a word in, about experiences of racism. that the topic was about.

        The rest was about how tough white jews have it these days and how Corbyn was a racist for apparently including in Palestinians and other nations who have racism against them. It was classic TV fodder and explains why so many people are turning off both MSM and politics.

        (Possibly taking the piss on the NBR was where Jones went wrong, I don’t read NBR so therefore have no idea what Jones actually said).
15. Eco Maori 15

    7 June 2018 at 7:09 am

    Good morning The AM Show I should have known the Taranaki Mans whano are good Ruby players Paddy Gower that is what’s he up to he will put out another good story soon.
    Many thanks to the Tauranga Council for buying those Bella Vista houses off the tangata. Can’t have the dirty washing displayed in public.
    Many thanks to the Coalition government for putting ear plugs in and going with the carbon neutral by 2050 yes we have to lead the changes to carbon because the leader is lost. And we will create a renewal energy industry that will export the products and knowledge gained from this our society will be much better off. Loyed in London a Heathrow Airport is getting a 3rd one day planes will be elictric container ships will be solar and sailing cannot wait.
    Our Farmers need to embrace becoming Carbon neutral and the rest of the World will embrace they produce its logical no it’s just big businesses distraught the logic to line there pockets. Ka kite ano
16. Eco Maori 16

    7 June 2018 at 7:49 am

    Some music for te tangata caused global warming link below.

    https://youtu.be/6ad4MH7fMLs Ka kite ano

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