Shut up shop makes sense while many of us that want protection from the disease haven't yet had the opportunity to get it. Me included. So I fully support the current round of shut up shop, and I'm mildly annoyed that the travel bubble with Australia was even opened in the first place, let alone how long they left it before closing it.
Once everyone that wants vaccination has had it, I don't think shut up shop will make sense anymore. Based on the published plans, it looks to me like our government won't be using shut up shop as the strategy from then, either.
Considering that vaccine approval down to the age of five (or even 2) is fairly likely to happen late this year, the vaccine rollout will likely extend to early next year. Which is the point when I would expect the shut up shop strategy to end, and new strategies to start.
I don't want to speak for DukeEll, but to me the following freedoms from our Bill of Rights are very important:
16 Freedom of peaceful assembly
Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly.
17 Freedom of association
Everyone has the right to freedom of association.
18 Freedom of movement
(1)Everyone lawfully in New Zealand has the right to freedom of movement and residence in New Zealand.
(2)Every New Zealand citizen has the right to enter New Zealand.
(3)Everyone has the right to leave New Zealand.
(4)No one who is not a New Zealand citizen and who is lawfully in New Zealand shall be required to leave New Zealand except under a decision taken on grounds prescribed by law.
The current severe risk of nasty disease and death certainly justifies the current restrictions on those rights.
But once everyone has had reasonable opportunity to get highly effective protection from severe disease and death, by getting vaccinated, then it will no longer be reasonable or justifiable to continue severely restricting those rights and freedoms.
(1) For the purpose of preventing the outbreak or spread of any infectious disease, the medical officer of health may from time to time, if authorised to do so by the Minister or if a state of emergency has been declared under the Civil Defence Emergency Management Act 2002 or while an epidemic notice is in force,—
(m) (iii) forbid people to congregate in outdoor places of amusement or recreation of any stated kind or description (whether public or private) within the district (or a stated area of the district):
This appears to cover public assembly. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it.
I was wondering more about his idea of freedom, rather than how legislation defines it, but thanks for that.
(There are also non-legislated moral and ethical codes, as well as social responsibilities, but I thought to give him a chance to start on the small stuff. See if he can handle the heavy lifting…)
Freedom from “vaccine hesitant” fuckwits would be a great start. They can take partial responsibility for COVID lockdowns and it’s outrageous the government has to take these peoples abhorrent views into account for public safety reasons.
That seems a little harsh considering our vaccination situation right now.
But when we get to the situation that everyone that wants vaccination has had a reasonable chance to get it, I'll probably be saying even harsher things if we still have lockdowns and closed borders.
I might not put it in such strong language but agree 100% with your sentiments Duke. Appears our government is and will continue to pander to said group.
"Servile". Oh I see you would rather be selfish and "Free". Twisting this situation to say the leaders in Health and Politics are cowing people is absolute tripe.
The servility you see is actually recognition of a dangerous and costly situation. Any other response is actually ridiculous. We get one chance to get this right, and this pandemic is getting worse round the world.
The rapid growth of the cluster, the age of the ill indicate the danger of of this highly infectious virus. We are in a "war" situation and "shutting up shop" is necessary.
That "Dear Leader" business is a very poor argument at any time. Politics should be put aside. The virus will infect Left Right and Centre.
Shutting up shop is only necessary because we have had an absolutely pathetic vaccine stoll-out thus far. New Zealand and Australia have handled the stroll out very badly and we are now paying the price. A complete lack of urgency because we apparently didn't have covid. Well guess what. Knock, knock, its here!
You can spin this which ever way you want. However all roads come back to dear leader and her band of merry followers. Period.
A complete lack of urgency because we apparently didn't have covid. Well guess what. Knock, knock, its here!
You can spin this which ever way you want.
David, your "complete lack of urgency" line and that "dear leader and her band of merry followers" jab read like spin. The speed of NZ’s vaccine roll out is determined by vaccine supply (duh!) Rather than focus on the "stroll out", ihmo we should focus on what our Govt could have done to secure vaccine doses more rapidly, and should be doing now as the global number of active Covid-19 cases (currently 17,482,862) continues to soar towards the crest of this pandemic's third wave.
For example, it might be good to have a discussion about whether using vaccines other than Pfizer's COMIRNATY is worth exploring, if NZ does indeed have spare doses of other Covid-19 vaccines, e.g.AZ doses diverted from Italy to Fiji. Or should the NZ government consider increasing taxes to fund the development of a dedicated vaccine production facility in NZ as insurance against future pandemics?
As this pandemic rolls on, remember that NZ's Covid-19 statistics (both cases per million (= 587), and deaths per million (= 5)) place us in an enviable position. Some NZers know just how 'Covid-lucky' we are – go team, get your jabs; I've had mine!
Thanks for the link. We know Comirnaty is safe, now, but did Medsafe drag the chain? They had 49 staff ~20 years ago, and around 60 now.
As part of the deal, no vaccine would be shipped until Medsafe had given approval of the vaccine. For a medicine or vaccine to be imported into New Zealand, it must have Medsafe approval.
When approval was imminent, the Government could raise a purchase order with Pfizer who would then deliver the vaccines.
On January 29, days before Pfizer's jab was given provisional Medsafe approval, the Government made a purchase order for 56 trays of the vaccine, amounting to 54,600 doses. As it transpired, those trays stretched to 65,520 doses, when it was discovered six doses could be extracted from a single vial, rather than five.
Israel has a 7-day moving average of 20 deaths/day from Covid-19. Scaled for population that would translate to 10 Kiwis dying every day. The current death rate in NZ is 0. Just saying.
Nah, don't forget it. Keep it on file and rub my nose in it any time you feel like it. Although I'm sure I've made much nastier comments that would be much better for rubbing my nose in.
BTW, the only comment I made on that OM was this one, which seems very innocuous by my standards.
If you want the link to go direct to the comment, make sure there's some text to go with so it's in a sentence. Even if the text is just a single full-stop.
Oh I see. That will probably explain why it suddenly showed up when I edited it and then when I edited it again it vanished.
And I have had my first jab, as it happens. I had to moan to finally get into the queue but I had it about 3 weeks ago. I would have been due for my second today as it happens but I read the stuff about a longer gap being better and had got it switched to about mid-September. What are the chances we will still be in lockdown then?
About an hour ago on Aljazeera TV new scientific information on the Pfizer vaccine will be released tomorrow. In the US a booster jab will be administered 8 months after the second jab due to antibodies waning.
All the more reason for everyone to get vaccinated if possible. Vaccinations for other diseases usually stop the spread, so if 80% of the population is vaccinated then usually the unvaccinated aren't infected & get a "free ride".
Looks like those who choose not to get the jab this time won't be able to rely on herd immunity for their protection.
Finally, a modest victory of sense over irrational loonies, that should help take a little bit of the edge off a public health crisis causing huge unnecessary suffering.
No, nothing to do with covid, it's just that golden rice has finally been granted the last approval needed to allow commercial growth and distribution in the Philippines, which will alleviate the problem of vitamin A deficiency a bit.
Hopefully, the benefits of this will open people's eyes a little bit more to the benefits of GMOs in dealing with numerous food supply issues coming at us fast.
Oh, the Golden Rice swindle! The problem (one of the many problems) with Golden Rice was that no one wanted to eat it because of its off-putting colour; it looked to rice-eaters as though it was spoiled.
You got any evidence for your assertion that the colour is a problem because people think it's spoiled? I've had a look, and can't find any evidence. I currently work with a majority Filipino workforce, and yellow-coloured rice appears fairly frequently at smoko. So it looks to me like that assertion is just something somebody made up to try to spread false fear, uncertainty, doubt.
As for swindles, the swindling going on about golden rice comes from the organics industry trying to protect their business model of selling the perception of benefits that are non-existent, and the likes of Greenpeace trying to protect their business model of spreading vague fears so they can sell themselves as the solution, to rake in donations and provide a very nice living to those at the top of the organisation thank you very much.
Your Filipino friends' yellow-coloured rice is likely that way because they added yellow-coloured spices to it, not because it came pre-yellowed from the sack! Funny how logical explanations can expose brash assertions.
As to "making it up", to the best of my knowledge and based upon the time, a number of years ago when I researched the Golden Rice issue, I learned of this factor, which seemed to me to be the critical one in the failure of up-take the first time around. I'm still of the view that this was a significant factor. I am however, not interested in going into bat on this issue, thanks.
In other words, I can't be arsed searching for something I found many years ago, despite the fact that the concept I've provided is entirely logical and resisted your efforts to make it seem illogical.
And 🙂 It’s hardly a “scary-sounding assertion” – The rice-eating community weren’t scared by the yellow rice, they just didn’t want to eat it, coz it looks spoiled.
In other you got nuthin'. But it's random idea that fits with your feels and reckons, so you'll keep repeating it regardless of it being untrue.
Idiot.
I've searched for evidence of opposition to golden rice on the basis that it looks like spoiled rice, and turned up nothing. Searching for images of spoiled rice turns up plenty, but the images look nothing like golden rice.
[please tone down the antagonism. There are plenty of politics to argue here without resorting to that. thanks – weka]
Andre; I'm puzzled by your antagonistic approach. You are clearly pro-GE and regard those who are not as "irrational loonies". I've not made any comment at all about GE, yet you're treating me as one of your "irrational loonies", even calling me an idiot, despite the fact that I've stuck closely to logical argument, rather than irrational name-calling.
But it sure would be nice if this bit of this site's policy would get taken a bit more seriously:
This includes making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof (and that doesn’t mean endless links to unsubstantial authorities) or even argue when requested to do so.
True, but I think that Robert did provide a coherent and logical explanation for his belief and an explanation for why he wasn't going to link chase. He also did so in an evenhanded way without upping the ante, and responded to the points you raised. In other words, he wasn't just making a claim of fact and then aggressively doubling down on it without attempting to explain (which is what happens here).
Not everything we know is provable, but we can still communicate it without making a hard claim of fact.
eg he said, this is something I learned some years ago, I don't have a source for it now, but it makes sense because [explanation]
vs someone saying repeatedly, this thing is true, I know it's true, you're wrong.
I found a starting link pretty easily, and I suspect others would have too if the conversation didn't open with calling people irrational loonies.
Andre – can you, I wonder, conceive of the possibility of a factor that might influence the up-take of a certain product by a certain culture, that was not foreseen by the producers, that was not related to the technology used to produce the crop and was a cultural factor, such as colour-preference, an aversion to a product-name, the selection of an inappropriate celebrity for the promotion of the product, etc.
Just a thought-experiment for you and I'm genuinely interested to know.
We're in the middle of a severe housing crisis, a global pandemic catching up on us, dire public health infrastructure etc etc – and all you can think of is the colour of your rice. Oh puhleese!
All I can think of – are your reading skills really that deficient? Have a look around the rest of today's Open Mike and see what other topics I've commented on. Let alone other days and posts.
And further to your reading comprehension deficiency, the issue around golden rice is not the colour, but that it can alleviate some of the horrible blight of hundreds of millions of people suffering vitamin A deficiency. At zero cost.
Blocking the prevention of even just a few of those cases because some privileged wealthy westerners hold some evidence-free irrational beliefs and wish to impose them on others is indeed something I'm utterly disgusted about. It's human suffering many orders of magnitude beyond the first world problems of a few people here being unable to buy a house or not getting a vaccination as quickly as they would like.
Yes, I think the yellow rice argument is a red (or is that yellow) herring. Because many people colour their rice with tumeric, so how it would be an issue is a mystery beyond straw clutching.
My biggest issue with GE is contamination of wild stock. Yes it happens, frequently. My second issue is corporate control of food lines. Big oil has shown us what they're prepared to do to retain riches and power, why big Ag and the likes of Monsanto would be any different is a fairy tale mystery to me.
"current regulatory systems are unable to protect against the risk of GMO contamination… farmers are reluctant to seek redress for fear of possible patent infringement…"
Wilson, S. (2014). Induced Nuisance: Holding Patient Owners Liable for GMO Cross-Contamination. Emory LJ, 64, 169.
"Genetically Modified Crops cannot co-exists with organic and heirloom crops. GMOs decimate their organic ancestors at the expense of agrobiodiversity and with little regard for environmental consequences. The pollen of monoculture plants cross-pollinates plants of the same species that may be quite far away in a process called genetic drift. This would be natural and necessary if it were not for the unnatural and dangerous traits that are inserted into GMOs through human hands, thereby often recklessly infiltrating organic or heirloom plants with GMO traits."
Steier, G. (2016). Textbox: Cross-Contamination, Genetic Drift, and the Question of GMO Co-existence with Non-GM Crops. In International Food Law and Policy (pp. 177-178). Springer, Cham.
There's loads of these. But nothing to see here right? Stupid know nothing hippies getting in the way of PROGRESS and GROWTH. People are starving because of inequities in distribution, not lack of GE.
White rice, when spoiled in storage, yellows. Experienced rice-eaters recognise un-cooked, yellowed rice as something to be avoided (it's a taste-thing, not and aesthetics-thing).
Rosemary @ 9:38 alludes to the real reason for the problem; lack of vegetables through capitalist pressures (please correct me if I’m wrong, Rosemary 🙂
You are entirely correct Robert. I am making it my mission these days to avoid stating the obvious. Allowing folks who haven't already done so to work it out for themselves.
(I'm one of those Luddite types that reckons that it is such supreme arrogance for mankind to presume to perfect in a few decades what nature has developed over millennia.
All was perfect before we buggered it up.)
I could bang on about monoculture…and I guess there's a reason why the VAD population do not grow a variety of food…but like you, I can't be arsed right now. Too busy.
Mixing potting mix and filling bags and containers for tomatoes, curcubits, sweetcorn etc currently thriving in the hothouse. Even here in the Far Far North it is still a little cool outdoors…but when it warms…I'll be ahead!
You, me and DB Brown are executives in Irrational Loonies Inc. it transpires; we should negotiate a substantial salary package from Andre before we go any further – irrational lunacy can't be expected to be provided for free!
Good on you for your foresight; the warm weather will be upon us before we know it and home-grown food is likely to be the game-changer for many New Zealand/Aotearoans 🙂 I've Running Butter Bean seedlings popping up in the warmth of our tunnel house just now. They're just like Scarlet Runners, only their long pods are butter-yellow! Exciting! Not GE, I should add 🙂
Last year…not enough stored water for summer vege gardens in poor soils. All was grown, harvested, stored and seed saved by mid January. This year…an abundance of stored water and much better soils due to green mulching. And our own sheeps' poo. Learning that 'full sun' does not work up here where the sun is so intense. (We are as far north as you are south.)Koanga heirloom seeds working well…many sourced from this rohe. Got to adapt and work with nature.
As for my food forest….I am experimenting with growing trees from seed. So far I have papaya, feijoas, persimmons, mangoes, and I started some pineapple seed sprouting this morning. Have usual grafted trees growing….but growing from seed is fun. One mate is into grafting and another is an ace at growing from cuttings.
I've just come in from harvesting some mid-winter spuds for a frittata. My mate has fresh tomatoes, outdoors, just around the corner (central Auckland), I'd have some of them on top of the frittata too if not for lockdown. Fresh herbs and greens, chives, onion, mmm. Getting hungry now. Will add cheese, because I'm a damn patriot!
So easy to do lots of food in a small space. High value nutrition, not that store bought nonsense bred into banality and sprayed into submission.
Times are certainly changing. A broad variety of types of food will see us through where monocultures can fail. I like to put lots of types of plants in various places and see which ones survive and which don't. From seed and cuttings this is a relatively cheap way to 'know your land' fairly quickly. Seasonal and weather related variance will keep you guessing long enough to keep it interesting.
The Taro retreats into a sunken path in drought, and moves upslope under the macadamia with water available. The bananas love a bowl, to retain both moisture and nutrients, but a bowl on a slope, so they don't rot in the wet. Nearly all land has some slope, a few degrees is enough. I have 3 bunches emerging on 8 stems. Another bunch ripening on my doorstep, so that was 4 bunches from 9 stems. The secret is chicken bedding, and a sweet location.
Got giant thyme grown all through winter too, plus peppers. Pulled a bonus wee kumara out while getting some spuds. Fresh as fresh ever gets. Bounty.
There's a few of us permies on my block now. We're swapping and learning together, always something to eat, still haven't utilised the half of our combined sections.
People are starving because of inequities in distribution, not lack of GE.
Please explain to me why the existence of inequities in distribution should stop efforts to improve the nutritional value of the main staple food of impoverished malnourished people.
As for loss of heirloom varieties, that is primarily driven by big ag taking over the areas where those heirloom varieties have been cultivated. It happens because of big ag, and it happens whether the monoculture is of a conventionally bred or mutation bred * or a GMO crop. It's big ag that's the problem, not the specific technique used to create the characteristics of the organism they're growing.
In the case of golden rice, it's a specific attempt to take the benefits of a powerful tool out of the hands of big ag, and give it to the small farmers to benefit from it. It's taking power out of the hands of big ag, giving it to those that have been shat upon by big ag.
* Seriously, why is mutation breeding acceptable to organic farmers and others opposed to big ag? Mutation bred organisms don't require the extensive safety testing GMOs do. But I can't think of a better technique for unleashing the triffids or Audrey 2 than inducing massive random mutations across the entire genome, then only checking and selecting for the few traits of interest. To me, the lack of opposition to mutation breeding amidst the rabid opposition to GMOs just shows how misguided and irrational the anti-GMO crowd really is.
Champions of GE to address climate change have an extraordinary blindness with regards to how evolution works, and how corporate interests are trying to control global food supplies.
Our greatest hope is more diversity, not more monoculture. Also dismantling of corporations into manageable entities that don't hold sway over governments.
Dietary advice, dietary variation, and 2 x annual vitamin A caps for youth are solving the VAD problem. While Golden Rice…
"Based on IRRI’s documents, Golden Rice contains less than 10% of an equivalent amount of beta-carotene in carrots. As mentioned above, even the US FDA took notice of the Golden Rice’s low beta-carotene content. Citing the IRRI report, the average beta-carotene of Golden Rice is a measly 1.26 µg/g, which is even lower than the 1.6 µg/g beta-carotene expression of the very first Golden Rice generation back in the 2000s."
I'm utterly disgusted at those in privileged positions in wealthy countries trying to deny a literally life-saving innovation to impoverished and malnourished people in desperate need of everything they can get to help their situation.
This particular innovation was developed and is distributed outside the control of big ag and other shitty organisation. It has zero demonstrable downsides for those people in need of it's benefits, and is a vast improvement on the other options actually available to them.
But the opposition to it in among privileged wealthy people is not based on demonstrable evidence, but appears entirely rooted in vague feels and reckons about it being against some righteous way of doing things.
Sure. And others are equally passionate because they see people starving happening because of the centre left, neoliberal politics you support. Or the BAU ag and industry you support that is killing the planet.
Explaining why you're disgusted adds to the debate because people can support or argue against your reasoning and beliefs (calling people loonies leads to flaming and people not listening to each other).
It seems to me that planting spinach or similar green leaf plants around the edges of the rice paddies would be a much better solution to vitamin A deficiency.
I think they grow lots of mangoes in the Philippines, too.
and I'm guessing (haven't read the whole thread to see if this is covered), that part of the problem is rice being grown for cash cropping rather than food for locals. The latter is more conducive to both health and ecology.
Yes. I understand Andre's concern and frustration: the issue of human health and the tragedy of the effects of malnutrition add a great deal of heat to any argument. The solutions offered seem to divide us left and right, which is telling (not sure what it tells 🙂 Your suggestions, and those of Rosemary and DB seem nuanced, holistic and multi-layered. Andre's, not so much but this might be just a matter of perception. It's an on-going puzzle.
I still have some hope that we (humans, lefties, kiwis, whoever) can develop communication that allows for development of ideas and solutions that are meeting points. The hard man, fisticuffs debate culture on the left is a problem for that, including on TS.
I also wonder if people are tired, scared, stressed, and just running out of patience for nuance and consideration. Even more need for the above in that case, but a conundrum.
Not aiming that at Andre in particular, I think most of us are struggling with the way the world is now at some level and this impacts on how we communicate or approach politics.
Breathe, and listen to your raging heart. That’s a tell-tale sign that you’re stressed. When people yell, people yell back. When people go silent, people think. More important than what is said is the pauses between, the brief moments of silence, what is not said but could be; that’s the magic moment of creation. The same in music and art in general: less is more. The old Masters and Composers knew the importance of contrast and change of tempo and volume, and silence. Enter a Mall and a wall of sound will ‘greet’ you to numb the senses and hypnotise you to buy and consume, aimlessly and senselessly. Here on TS we are bombarded with walls of words that burry the mind in an avalanche of meaningless words. We become unthinking lazy zombies with aggressive and destructive attitudes towards others. Breathe.
It seems to me that we are being "broken" by all this (see"the crises of the world") and, like caterpillars in-crysalis, we are going to be "pithed" (see, toads/experimental) by circumstance, and emerge, butterflies! 🙂
Growing golden rice doesn't prevent growing other fruits and vegetables. It's a false dichotomy to think of doing this instead of that. Better to look at all improvements that can add together.
As an improvement for impoverished malnourished people, golden rice adds significant nutritional value to the main staple food consumed by the huge majority of impoverished malnourished people. It doesn't displace anything else.
Those impoverished malnourished people would love to be able to add more varied fruits and vegetables to their diets, and maybe even occasionally animal protein, but it's other obstacles than rice supply that stand in the way of that.
Not least of which is the enormous population density of 368 people per sq km (including all the regularly erupting volcanoes). That extremely high population density really puts a premium on extracting the most calories feasible from any given plot of arable land.
For comparison, New Zealand's population density is 18 per sq km, 1/20th that of the Philippines. If someone's lived experience here is having the wealth and privilege of plenty of land to grow fruits and veges to supplement their diet largely obtained from elsewhere, then frankly they have NFI of the food supply pressures on impoverished malnourished people in places like the Philippines. Nor what mitigation measures might realistically be achievable.
Questions that present begin: is it true that "Growing golden rice doesn't prevent growing other fruits and vegetables. "
Are workers in Golden Rice fields free and able to grow their own veggies, or is their time and land taken for the money-crop? Are they pressured to work for money then spend it on "packaged" food, as is reportedly, so often the case?
As to "calories" – does Golden Rice offer more calories than other crops (DB Brown challenged that claim, elegantly, I thought).
It seems counter-intuitive to claim that "wealth and privilege" is a pre-requisite to growing fruits and veggies. Fruit and veggies have been grown by money-less communities since time-imermorial, like, forever, it seems.
I'm not nay-saying your claims, just asking for clarification.
Growing golden rice doesn't prevent the growing of other fruits and vegetables any more than growing regular rice does. The main difference golden rice has is that it puts beta-carotene into the rice grains, which regular rice doesn't. The plant as a whole isn't really doing much different, beta-carotene is present in the rest of the plant in both golden rice and regular rice. Chemically, beta-carotene is purely hydrogen and carbon, so golden rice is not taking up trace elements or scarce nitrogen or phosphorus that regular rice doesn't.
Calories wise or productivity wise, I haven't seen anything that says there's significant difference between golden rice and regular rice. It's just that rice gives very high calories per hectare compared to alternative crops on that land. Hence the pressure to grow rice rather than something else that may be more nutritious but has significantly less productivity in terms of calories. It's just the pressure to simply produce enough calories to feed that high population density.
Having the land and the time to grow veges is a manifestation of wealth and privilege. Especially in extremely high population density places, such as the Philippines, that are poor yet extensively urbanised.
Being described as wealthy and privileged may seem a WTF? moment to rural poor people, both here and in less fortunate countries. But having the time and land to grow your own varied food really is wealth and privilege compared to the conditions suffered by those that haven't "made it" in the cities. As well as those trapped in a rural cycle of feeling they have to absolutely maximise production from their land to meet external financial pressures. Or landless rural poor such as itinerant rural workers.
Hmmm… you seem to have simply reposted your original claims, rather than addressing my questions…
You say, "Growing golden rice doesn't prevent the growing of other fruits and vegetables any more than growing regular rice does."
I say, "growing regular rice, or bananas, coffee, tea etc, DOES prevent the workers from growing their own food. The land is claimed for commerce, the time is claimed for 'employment". Have you a response for this, Andre?
Then your objections should be to the existing systems of agriculture and commerce in general, and should not have any distinction between golden rice and regular rice.
Because there is no difference between golden rice and regular rice in terms of land use, labour, commerce, external inputs etc.
The only difference changing from regular rice to golden rice will be that those that are vitamin A deficient because of their diets will become less vitamin A deficient if they are able to change the regular rice they eat now over to golden rice.
Which will have follow-on beneficial effects in reducing the time and expense of vitamin A supplements. And reducing the suffering and time and expense of treating people for the effects of vitamin A deficiency.
Well, Andre, my "objections" weren't objections at all; I simply offered my view that the efforts to make Golden Rice the rice-of-choice, fell down because the locals rejected it because it looked squiffy 🙂
And, indeed, my "objections" to "the existing systems of agriculture and commerce in general" – yes, that is what I'm objecting to! GE rice fits right in there and I'm not changing my opinion just because it's clever science 🙂
In closing: growing food for your self and for your family is not something available only to those with "wealth and privilege" – it's for us all. Go well!
So you offered your view on the basis of no evidence that you have been able to provide, and are sticking to it in the face of contrary information. That's irrational.
You are continuing your objection to a specific instance of GMO rice because of your objections to the general systems of big ag. Even though that particular instance of GMO rice was specifically developed and distributed outside of big ag, specifically to enable people to break free from big ag. And help them keep out of the clutches of big medicine and big pharma. That's irrational.
You appear to cling to your belief that growing your own fuit and veg is available to everyone, despite there being numerous classes of people that do not possess the wealth and privilege of the time and land and whatever other resources needed to do so, whether it be access to natural light, sufficient water, stability or whatever else. That's irrational.
I won't use the "L" word, because that seems to be a bit triggering.
Well, Andre, you provided no "contrary information" AT ALL to my suggestion that the GE rice wasn't popular because it looked spoiled; but hei aha! I'm not, despite your claim, objecting to Golden Rice, I'm simply saying, people didn't take a shine to it. That's my understanding. I searched my memory banks, somewhat depleted though they are, and discovered that the last time I engaged in this debate was on grubby old Kiwiblog, some 10 or so years ago! I've not commented there, or rather, been allowed to comment there, for many years, so it won't be difficult, should you choose to pursue the matter, to unearth the thread of discussion there; my alter-ego, Greenfly, was flying the flag back then (it may have been Village Idiot, or perhaps Hugh Manatee, who can remember back that far 🙂
You're also being irrational about how the burden of proof works. You made the assertion, you prove it. Nobody else has to disprove any random assertion you make, it's up to you to prove it.
Wow you sure do spin a lot of spin. The rice is a non-event insofar as Vitamin A content for helping people, and the ownership is in the hands of corporations, not given away as you allude to.
The vitamin A doesn't store, even if the rice does.
You are using hyperbole. Why don't you come out and tell us we are endangering children with our objection to this nonsense.
Decades in development, nothing special to see. Just the same old push, retreat, push again till this crap has its foot in the door. Ruthless commercialism.
My opposition is not rooted in vague feelings. It is rooted in knowledge of plant physiology, plant pathology and evolution – all of which I'm pretty damn good at. Add to that a lot of years working in a lot of growing systems.
Your argument is emotionally laden abusive garbage.
The general opposition to Golden Rice is nicely described in this quote from the second site I visited:
"Golden Rice is a techno-fix to malnutrition and a corporate ploy to control our agriculture. It is not needed by Asian people nor the world. Indeed, the solution to hunger and malnutrition lies in comprehensive approaches that ensure people have access to diverse sources of nutrition. Securing small farmers’ control over resources such as seed, appropriate technologies, water and land is the real key to improving food production and eradicating hunger and malnutrition."
"Finally, there are social and cultural roadblocks. There are eating preferences deeply rooted in longstanding tradition. The yellow color of the rice may not be accepted because of different countries’ social and cultural history. (MASIPAG)."
Very very weak. To the point that I question your reading comprehension skills.
It doesn't say anything whatsoever about where those countries with resistance might be. It might be African or South American countries with cultural resistance to yellow rice. It doesn't even mention spoilage at all. It appears to be trying to reference MASIPAG as a source, but even that weak claim doesn't appear on MASIPAG's current gish-gallop of misinformation about why they oppose golden rice.
The Science Based Medicine article I started the thread with addresses the misinformation and misdirection techniques MASIPAG uses, but here it is again.
Thanks for the link, Andre – it looks top-drawer, only it'll be wasted on me and my questionable reading comprehension skills. I'll stick with believing there are better ways to improve health than eating GE foods. I could be wrong about that, but it doesn't feel that way 🙂
When you hear things described as unsustainable, know that it means that it will not remain….this situation will not be tolerated forever and then everyone loses….including those who think they are insulated.
Yet for some reason unexplained Australia – that nation so hated by the left – with policies very similar to NZ seems not to have a 'housing crisis'. Sure there are always marginalised in any society who will face homelessness and housing difficulties, but for the most part quality and affordability are not issues on the same scale they are in NZ except maybe in parts of Sydney and Melbourne.
Hell we're looking at buying some retirement units in Brisbane for $70k each. Think about that.
Part of the story is geography, there is just so much land in Aus compared to NZ. Another part is an efficient building industry, and another is a solid ASX that provides and alternative investment vehicle for people looking to fund their retirement. By comparison NZ is on the back foot on all of these measures. Still if you think the solution is to hope for the system to collapse …
Australia has the same ponzi problem albeit slightly less pronounced .
The issues are not based in land availability or construction constraints but in credit…the basis of western economies since production was abandoned as the basis of growth.
The 'solution' will occur, whether it is a collapse of the housing ponzi that occurs before or in tandem with societal breakdown is the only question…thats what unsustainable means.
Pretty sad, that such a mover and shaker like yourself is found here, rutting about in the mud with the hoi polloi. Don't you have real poor people to denigrate?
Opening an industrial plant, what a manly man. In the meantime, climate change. You're just depressing.
That's why walruses are jumping off cliffs.
That's why possums jump in front of cars.
You know we've got polar bears coming down from the North trying to mate with brown bears. That's an endangered species trying to sleep with a common species in order to save themselves.
Interesting how that comment of mine above hit a nerve, obviously ironic as it was meant to be. Your reaction being a classic Karpman drama, you set the 'real poor people' up as the victims, me as their oppressor and your brave self as their rescuer. It's a con game – always has been.
Opening an industrial plant, what a manly man. In the meantime, climate change. You're just depressing.
Same plant that will be producing the first battery grade lithium hydroxide in Australia.
You're clearly a well educated and capable person with a great deal of experience. So far I've been reading your fresh contributions here with some considerable interest. While I definitely have an idealist streak, one that has kept me active here since the site was started in 2007, over time I've definitely become more pragmatic in that reality demands we consider all of the effective tools available to us – and that includes many of the themes you've been writing about.
In respect of climate change I've written here previously that the solution will come from a combination of both an agricultural, industrial and ultimately a political evolution expressing the fundamental unity of the human species. Clearly each of these themes is so extensive no single individual can grasp any single one, much less all three. Which is why we need to understand how to build each other up, communicate effectively and act with common purpose.
In respect of climate change I’ve written here previously that the solution will come from a combination of both an agricultural, industrial and ultimately a political evolution expressing the fundamental unity of the human species.
On that, in the industrial front.
There was an annoying video article in Stuff about something that I didn’t think would actually happen. Producing and delivering steel made without coal or carbon is important. About 8% of the worlds emmissions are from making steel, and most of that is from the coking coal. I didn’t think that there was a realistic way out of that. Because we need steel to run a technology based economy similar to our current one. Certainly need it to transition to any other without a human die-back.
A Reuters text article explains it and it has the promo clip at the top. However it doesn’t explain the process apart from saying that they’re using Hydrogen.
A Forbes article from last year gives a better explanation. At a 20-30% cost above normal production costs, it is easily within a industrial roll-out level. Just add carbon taxes or costs.
By my reckoning, at a technical level, that leaves just 3 areas of technological concern. Concrete, mass air-travel, and shipping as large emitters with no current effective low or no-carbon emitter technology to be developed.
"Still if you think the solution is to hope for the system to collapse …"
I think Pat might have said the opposite to that, i.e. "this situation will not be tolerated forever and then everyone loses…" Those of us who care about actual outcomes are terrified of collapse, because we know that it will do the most harm to those already at the bottom of the pile. I favour radically truthful diagnoses of a problem, but very careful responses. The first part is important, because without it we will never summon the collective will to do anything.
The only trouble I have with a housing market collapse is that it can fall one of two ways: secure housing becomes possible for poorer people in their lifetime; or dwelling ownership becomes more concentrated as the upper middle class are kicked out of an exclusive club they were never wanted in from the start.
It will (not can) collapse because those that ultimately support it (those 'poorer' renters) cannot continue to support additional inflation and the raison d'etre disappears…..that pool gets larger and poorer by the auction.
A big reason is the very light weight and fragile nature of Aussie houses, no earthquake regulations and a lot less insulation to worry about , for instance when we build in ex100x50 at 450 to 600 centres they only need or used to when I was there ex75x35 and far wider centres. Not much fun in a cyclone but then when did the Aussies care much about sensible precautions anyway.
We were house and cat sitting in Redcliffe on the Sunshine Coast four years ago. I saw a small movement on a board in the bathroom.. it was a termite munching a hole at quickly as I type this.
Luckily they had their yearly pest inspection happening that afternoon. It was dealt with. I thought "Wow! wood is no good unless it is treated or turpentine timber’, and nearby steel framing was going into newly built properties.
Results from a new high-quality trial of ivermectin are starting to come out. Not a final report, yet, but today is the first time I've seen info straight from the researchers. Conclusion: ivermectin doesn't do anything significantly useful against covid.
However, they did find that a different repurposed older drug, fluvoxamine, appears to have enough beneficial effects to be a useful addition to treatment regimes.
There does indeed appear to be Big Pharma grifting going on over covid.
But the grifters aren't the vaccine manufacturers selling a safe product that actually mostly prevents getting infected and almost completely prevents serious disease and death for $50 for a 2-dose course.
Not compared to those selling a treatment that runs $1000 a course for treating the disease. That appear to have financial connections to lawmakers taking actions that appear intended to reduce vaccination rates and increase disease rates.
If you listened to whingy Eastwood getting arrested (and livestreaming the event for attention so this is entirely fair game) you'd see the format simply reflects his increasing hysteria and ridiculous plea for attention.
kind of but the text in tweet in #7 is also enlarged for effect so hard to use as an example. I was meaning tweets generally. I'll screenshot next time I see one
I've never heard of this Vinnie Eastwood. When I saw the above clip, what I thought I saw was a piss-take; reading his smile and listening to his words it sounded like an actor on amateur dram night at the local repertory tasked to address a street corner meeting as a young Winston Churchill.
If I recognise him correctly, I've had the unpleasant experience of seeing him at TPPA protests in Auckland… megaphone in hand, rattling off on a tangent from why most were there.
Thought so too. Never understood the negativity directed at "the mozzie's third rate stenography efforts". Over the years I've found some of Morrissey's comments here to be LOL funny. Not everyone's cuppa, sure, but good medicine for me – thanks Moz.
JUDITH ("Rosa") COLLINS. A brutal, intimidating woman with the looks and personality of the James Bond villain, Rosa Klebs. Collins has replaced the lovely K****rine R*ch as the National Party's "social welfare" spokeswoman. To many observers, this position sits oddly against her former role as a corporate lawyer for the casino industry. https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-22-12-2017/#comment-1429231
To be fair, sometimes he tickles the funny bone. With a strong emphasis on sometimes. If I saw a comic with that hit rate I'd avoid their performances.
There are comics with a similar hit rate self promoting ceaselessly as well. It does nothing to endear me to them.
When it comes to humour, one person's 'never' is another's 'sometimes' and a third person's 'often' – 'always' might be pushing it, but you never know.
I enjoy them too. So much faster to read than to listen, and Morrissey's take just relates to my sense of humour. I'm in no two minds about how he views certain people, and that appeals to me as he doesn't hide behind well-chosen words and sideways references.
Most readers should be able to distinguish narrative from framing, and interpret independently. But I get a fair few chuckles from Morrissey's framing.
So if we taxed that at 1c a gigabyte, around $95,000,000 a year would be available to (for example) NZ on Air to spend on NZ content for converged media.
Jeepers that seems a lot but to an untrained eye like mine it's also a mostly meaningless number. Though I appreciate the netflix analogy to try wrap my head around it…
That's like 365 000 people running netflix for 24 hours. Not THAT huge.
Agree on the tax, but how would they implement it. Streaming services are cheap but I'm sure they'll jack the prices once free alternatives like TVNZ have been buried. The tax might save local content from said burial.
The same amount of money would be obtained by a 1c per litre tax on oil consumed in NZ at about 150,000 barrels per day. I say this because I'm interested as to why there should be a tax on internet usage to fund NZ on Air.
I wonder what is the size of the carbon footprint of using 26 petabytes of data daily? That might better direct any possible data consumption tax (DST?) to a more applicable usage, like climate change concerns for example.
"… I say this because I'm interested as to why there should be a tax on internet usage to fund NZ on Air…"
It is the 21st century equivalent of the old fashioned TV license for to pay for public content, with the bonus it can be collected at source – the ISPs and phone providers
I use about 20GB a month on my phone, so for me it would be 20c a month on my phone bill and about $6-8 a month on our internet bill.
Great. That means that about 84% of our population now have an approved vaccine to take.
Pfizer apparently expect to submit data for 5 to 11 year olds in September, so when that happens we'll have a vaccine approved for about 94% of our population.
This is nuts, children are least affected by the virus by a long way, and they're poor spreaders of it. Why are children being offered vaccination??
"Researchers estimate that 25 deaths in a population of some 12 million children in England gives a broad, overall mortality rate of 2 per million children."
Because "least affected" is not the same as "not affected". Covid is sufficiently harmful that even the least affected age group still suffer unacceptable harms. So it makes sense to reduce those potential harms as much as possible. By vaccinating them.
Children can still transmit the virus, even if not as much as adults. So from a public health perspective, it's best to reduce as much as possible the size of the population that get become infected and potential transmit to others. Vaccination achieves this.
mauī, developed and more fortunate under-developed countries vaccinate children against viral diseases. What's your main concern about vaccinating 12-15 year olds against Covid-19, and why do you think that health experts recommend vaccination?
And with the more transmissible Delta variant accounting now for nearly 99% of cases in the US, the situation is growing particularly dangerous for children, experts said.
They have advocated for children to wear masks in school, but some governors have attempted to ban such requirements.
"Why tie the hands of the public health officials behind their backs? You have two weapons here, one is vaccines the other is masking, and for children less than 12 that's the only weapon they have," Dr. Paul Offit, a member of the US Food and Drug Administration's vaccine advisory committee, told CNN's Erin Burnett.
Hotez said the US is now at a "screaming level of virus transmission," adding that to really interrupt the spread, 80 to 85% of the population will need to be vaccinated.
"We know from past epidemics what that means, the best way to do this is to vaccinate your way out of it in collaboration with masks," Hotez said. "We can't be either, or — the only way we are going to defeat this virus is with both."
Whatever else the future holds, if Covid-19 persists in some form then presumably you’ll have no objection to those 12-15 year olds getting jabs in 3 – 6 years’ time.
The general feeling I have on it is treating children who already have a robust immune response and aren't a risk group for disease, with a new medical treatment still undergoing testing and awaiting full approval is not what decent societies do.
Thanks; regrettably 'very low risk' isn't 'zero risk'. Imho decisions to vaccinate children should be left up to (responsible) parents, as is currently the case.
Any concerns about that, and any ideas about how best to protect children who have a less than robust immune system, or are otherwise 'Covid-unlucky'?
Kids Can't Get COVID-19 Vaccines Yet. But We Do Have Ways to Protect Them [17 August 2021] As of the most recent data, some 4.3 million children have tested positive for COVID-19. This number is likely an underestimate, as some children can become infected but show no or only milder symptoms and may not get tested. But, despite some claims to the contrary, not all children cope so well with infection. In the U.S., well over 17,000 children have been hospitalized with COVID-19, thousands have developed a severe, life-threatening post-COVID-19 illness that impacts the heart, and hundreds have died from this now vaccine-preventable disease. As the highly transmissible SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant triggers a steep incline in COVID-19 infections across the U.S., pediatric cases, too, are rising dramatically. We must protect our children.
We don't know if people died ofcovid, or with covid (see below). Which to my mind does call into question not only that statistic, but the other stats used in that piece.
"A tremendous number of government and private policies affecting kids are based on one number: 335. That is how many children under 18 have died with a Covid diagnosis code in their record, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Yet the CDC, which has 21,000 employees, hasn’t researched each death to find out whether Covid caused it or if it involved a pre-existing medical condition."
"Yet the CDC, which has 21,000 employees, hasn’t researched each death to find out whether Covid caused it or if it involved a pre-existing medical condition."
I'm afraid your link does have the familiar tinge of propaganda…
Please, don't be afraid. Not sure what's motivating your attempts to minimise the impact of this pandemic on young people. Are you implying that the CDC is exaggerating Covid deaths, and if so then to what possible end? Excess mortality analyses suggest that deaths due to Covid-19 infection have typically been underestimated.
Here's some more grist to your propaganda/conspiracy mill.
The government's push to get Germany's youth vaccinated comes two months after the European Medicines Agency recommended that the coronavirus vaccine made by Pfizer-BioNTech be expanded to children 12 to 15. Last week, the EU drug regulator also cleared the vaccine made by Moderna for the same age group.
1. All those aged 12 to 15 years should be offered an mRNA vaccine to protect themselves from frequent mild or very rare severe COVID-19 and its consequences (e.g., long COVID, MIS-C).
2. Those with underlying medical conditions are strongly encouraged to accept vaccination as soon as it is offered.
3. Those living with someone at risk of severe COVID-19 are strongly encouraged to accept the vaccination as soon as it is offerede.g. a younger child with complex medical needs, or with an immunocompromised adult
A parent or legal guardian will need to consent for a child aged 12-15 to be vaccinated. The parent’s decision to give consent for the vaccine or not will be respected. To help people make an informed decision there is a detailed information leaflet available on each vaccine produced by the HSE in addition to other materials such as a decision aid and this document.
And here's an informative and (imho) balanced article [9 August] – something for everyone; just please don't label it propaganda.
You could ask what thousands of parents who owe their children's lives to other experimental surgeries and treatments think.
You could also ask the parents of children who didn’t survive experimental surgeries or treatments, and gauge their reflections on whether hopes for success or contributing to aid efforts to eliminate diseases, is too high a price to pay to avoid suffering or death.
It's possible they may view things a bit differently. Mile in who's shoes?
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A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
She was born 25 years ago today in North Shore hospital. Her eyes were closed tightly shut, her mouth was silently moving. The whole theatre was all quiet intensity as they marked her a 2 on the APGAR test. A one-minute eternity later, she was an 8. The universe was ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
Peter Dunne writes – The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious: we live in a troubled ...
1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Recent extreme weather events showed the importance of a well-functioning insurance system, says Commerce and Consumer Affairs minister Andrew Bayly. ...
By Jo Moir, RNZ News political editor, and Craig McCulloch, deputy political editor New Zealand’s Labour Party is demanding Winston Peters be stood down as Foreign Minister for opening up the government to legal action over his “totally unacceptable” attack on a prominent AUKUS critic. In an interview on RNZ’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christian Brakenridge, Postdoctoral research fellow at Swinburne University, Centre for Urban Transitions, Baker Heart and Diabetes Institute The Conversation, Gorodenkoff/Shutterstock People have a pretty intuitive sense of what is healthy – standing is better than sitting, exercise is great for overall ...
The Wellington-based Reserve Force soldier is now almost three years into his New Zealand Army career with 5th/7th Battalion, Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment. ...
"The Government needs to release the review immediately as this reckless approach to change risks disjointed decision making and creates more distress and uncertainty for staff," Fitzsimons said. ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Jeremiah Manele has been elected Prime Minister of Solomon Islands, polling 31 votes to 18 over rival candidate and former opposition leader Mathew Wale with one abstention. The final result of the election by secret ballot was announced by the Governor-General, Sir David Vunagi, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Priestley Habru, PhD candidate, public diplomacy, University of Adelaide Former foreign minister Jeremiah Manele has been elected the next prime minister of Solomon Islands, defeating the opposition leader, Matthew Wale, in a vote in parliament. The result is a mixed bag for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shaun Eaves, Senior Lecturer in Physical Geography, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington Jamey Stutz, CC BY-SA How often do mountains collapse, volcanoes erupt or ice sheets melt? For Earth scientists, these are important questions as we try ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Flood, Professor of Sociology, Queensland University of Technology Shutterstock Most young adult men in Australia reject traditional ideas of masculinity that endorse aggression, stoicism and homophobia. Nonetheless, the ongoing influence of those ideas continues to harm men and the people ...
The NZQA proposal released to staff today would involve a net loss of 35 roles. There are 66 roles being disestablished with 13 of those currently vacant, and 31 new roles proposed, said Fleur Fitzsimons Public Service Association Te Pūkenga Here Tikanga ...
Alex Casey talks to Loren Taylor, the writer, director and star of new film The Moon is Upside Down, about assembling her dream ensemble cast, toilet paper pads and turning literal dreams into reality. There’s a moment in The Moon is Upside Down where frazzled anaesthetist Briar (Loren Taylor) gets ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cassy Dittman, Senior Lecturer/Head of Course (Undergraduate Psychology), Research Fellow, Manna Institute, CQUniversity Australia With winter sports swinging into action, adults around the country have volunteered or been volunteered by others (humorously known as being “volun-told”) to coach junior sports teams. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Karleen Gribble, Adjunct Associate Professor, School of Nursing and Midwifery, Western Sydney University richardernestyap/Shutterstock Parents are often advised to burp their babies after feeding them. Some people think burping after feeding is important to reduce or prevent discomfort crying, or to ...
Workers at a major ASB contact centre in Auckland have voted to take strike action and withdraw their labour following disappointing pay negotiations with the employer and an "offer" to workers that would leave them worse off than the previous year. ...
As the government tries to get the country back on track with a school phone ban, Tara Ward has an idea for where they should turn their attention to next.New Zealand students returned to school on Monday morning, but their cellphones did not. The government’s new phone ban began ...
The Labour Party is demanding Peters be stood down, saying "he's embarrassed the country" with a "totally unacceptable" attack on a prominent AUKUS critic. ...
The Inter-Parliamentary Alliance, whose members were victims of a China-backed cyber attack, is discussing forming a standing committee to deal with foreign influence. ...
The PSA is concerned that the voluntary redundancies being offered to staff by Stats NZ will impact on the agency’s ability to deliver on its core functions. ...
Results ranged from surprisingly yum to soul-destroying. I love cooking. The kitchen is a hearth of culinary creation, of sensory delights, of gastronomic poetry. I also can’t afford anything nice. Why does a pack of instant noodles and some milk cost ten bucks? I love you, Aotearoa, but I miss ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Police in Solomon Islands are on high alert ahead of the election of the prime minister today. The two candidates for the top job are former foreign affairs minister Jeremiah Manele at the head of the Coalition for National Unity and Transformation, which is ...
He’s fine but it feels like I’m losing a friend and it’s making me bitter. How do I say ‘enough is enough’? Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzHey Hera,I’ve recently moved in with a girlfriend, her partner Steve, and his friend. We all live in a lovely little house. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nick Chartres, Senior Research Fellow, Faculty of Medicine & Health, University of Sydney shutterstockAhmet Misirligul/Shutterstock You go to the gym, eat healthy and walk as much as possible. You wash your hands and get vaccinated. You control your health. This is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jacqueline Hendriks, Research Fellow and Lecturer, Curtin University Children and young people may be seeing news headlines about men murdering women or footage of people rallying to call for action. Perhaps they or their friends have even gone to the protests. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jessica Balanzategui, Senior Lecturer in Media, RMIT University ABC “Bluey mania” shows no sign of abating. Bluey’s season finale, The Sign, was the most viewed ABC program of all time on iView. A “hidden” follow-up episode, aptly named The Surprise, created ...
Labour market figures came in softer than the Reserve Bank had forecast, but they won’t be enough to move the needle on interest rates, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Unemployment ...
The campaign will engage the community and encourage submissions on the bill to the New Zealand government by the closing submission deadline of Friday 31st of May 2024 4pm. ...
The paper raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand's political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency plays in that. ...
The Urban Habitat Collective was an attempt to built an innovative new form of apartment building in Wellington. Here’s why it failed, and why the idea could still work, writes co-founder Bronwen Newton. When we started the Urban Habitat Collective in November 2018, we thought we were starting a revolution, ...
Two decades ago this week, a controversial law that attempted to define ownership of the foreshore and seabed prompted a formidable display of outrage and kōtahitanga as 15,000 marched to parliament. Jamie Tahana looks back.‘Hīkoi, hīkoi,” they chanted by the thousands as the biggest Māori march in a generation ...
A Labour Party Member’s Bill aims to plug a culpability gap between manslaughter and health and safety breaches The post New push for corporate killing laws appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Terence O’Brien had the rare and no doubt undesired distinction of rising to one of the most exalted positions in New Zealand diplomacy, then being unceremoniously recalled to Wellington without explanation just when his career was at its zenith. What is perhaps more surprising is that he appears to have ...
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Why has New Zealand slipped from third to 12th on Quality of Death Indexes over the past decade or so? Hospice New Zealand Chief Executive Wayne Naylor has a list of reasons. “We don’t have a current national strategy – the Government hasn’t renewed our 2001 strategy, so we don’t ...
While women’s sport is exploding in Aotearoa and around the world, you still don’t hear a lot of talk about athletes and their periods, RED-S, breastfeeding and visible panty-lines. SASS (Suze and Sez Sports)Talk isn’t afraid to have that kōrero.LockerRoom founder Suzanne McFadden and Olympian broadcaster Sarah ...
On an unusually hot night in January 2019, a little boy’s lifeless body was found face up in a small town’s sewage oxidation pond. To the police, it was an open and shut case: three-year-old Lachlan Jones had run away from his home in the Southland town of Gore, climbed ...
Rongotai MP Julie Anne Genter has apologised in Parliament after National accused her of intimidating and attacking one of its ministers in the House. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Prime Minister and state and territory leaders met on Wednesday as the national cabinet to discuss a crisis gripping Australia – the horrific number of women murdered this year. The killings have shocked ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Radhika Raghav, Teaching Fellow, School of Humanities and Social Sciences, University of Otago Netflix Indian director Sanjay Leela Bhansali is known for his big-budget Bollywood production, featuring grand sets, star casts, meticulously choreographed dance sequences and lavish costumes, jewellery and furnishings. ...
Sir Robert devoted his life to disability rights after living in institutions in his younger years, says Kaihautū Tika Hauātanga | Disability Rights Commissioner Prudence Walker. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anastasia Powell, Professor, Family and Sexual Violence, RMIT University Violence against women is not a women’s problem to solve, it is a whole of society problem to solve; and men in particular have to take responsibility. Those were the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jessica Allen, Senior Lecturer in Chemical and Renewable Energy Engineering, University of Newcastle Snapshot freddy/ShutterstockPlans to revive an old coal-fired power station using bioenergy are being considered in the Hunter region of New South Wales. Similar plans for the station ...
Responding to the long-awaited release of judges’ special allowances, including free air travel and hotels for spouses, generous sabbaticals, and access to limousines, Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Alex Murphy said: “In what world does your employer ...
Analysis - The United States has unveiled plans to boost the weapons trade with Australia and the UK, on the same day that Winston Peters is expected to sketch NZ's position on AUKUS. ...
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I see an airnz crew member's tested positive that's fully vaccinated who was on the Tokyo run.
NSW has screwed Oz and us in the procces, were those Olympics and holidays worth it folks !
Sure were. Fuck living in your grim servile vision of the world.
you don’t like vaccination, you don’t want delta, so freedom must suffer.
out of interest, what about our Paralympians?
Absolutely agree. Some people just want to "shut up shop" and hide away forever.
100% . Fortunately I sense those "shut up shop" followers of our dear leader are declining in number rather rapidly at the moment.
Shut up shop makes sense while many of us that want protection from the disease haven't yet had the opportunity to get it. Me included. So I fully support the current round of shut up shop, and I'm mildly annoyed that the travel bubble with Australia was even opened in the first place, let alone how long they left it before closing it.
Once everyone that wants vaccination has had it, I don't think shut up shop will make sense anymore. Based on the published plans, it looks to me like our government won't be using shut up shop as the strategy from then, either.
Considering that vaccine approval down to the age of five (or even 2) is fairly likely to happen late this year, the vaccine rollout will likely extend to early next year. Which is the point when I would expect the shut up shop strategy to end, and new strategies to start.
It's the antis who're declining in numbers and health davy.
Some people just want to "shut up shop" and hide away forever.
What is your position on having a lockdown?
Lockdown only needed at the moment IMO because not enough people vaccinated. If 80% vaccinated could just do level 2 by regions.
There is a lot riding on the success of vaccination and the current vaccines. At least I know where I am with a lockdown.
I plan to go a day at a time.
Regions porous. Easy movement between. Holiday homes example.
No, They just want to do what has to be done to keep everyone safe. It's social responsibility, not individual, personal self interest.
"…so freedom must suffer…"
Out of curiosity, what do you consider freedom to be?
I don't want to speak for DukeEll, but to me the following freedoms from our Bill of Rights are very important:
The current severe risk of nasty disease and death certainly justifies the current restrictions on those rights.
But once everyone has had reasonable opportunity to get highly effective protection from severe disease and death, by getting vaccinated, then it will no longer be reasonable or justifiable to continue severely restricting those rights and freedoms.
Does the Public Act 70 special powers of the medical officer of health override the Bill of Rights Act when it comes to public assembly?
I think you're referring to Section 70 of the Public Health Act.
This appears to cover public assembly. But I'm not a lawyer, so don't take my word for it.
Thanks for that and the correction.
I was wondering more about his idea of freedom, rather than how legislation defines it, but thanks for that.
(There are also non-legislated moral and ethical codes, as well as social responsibilities, but I thought to give him a chance to start on the small stuff. See if he can handle the heavy lifting…)
Freedom from “vaccine hesitant” fuckwits would be a great start. They can take partial responsibility for COVID lockdowns and it’s outrageous the government has to take these peoples abhorrent views into account for public safety reasons.
That seems a little harsh considering our vaccination situation right now.
But when we get to the situation that everyone that wants vaccination has had a reasonable chance to get it, I'll probably be saying even harsher things if we still have lockdowns and closed borders.
I might not put it in such strong language but agree 100% with your sentiments Duke. Appears our government is and will continue to pander to said group.
We're doing a solid rollout, but antivaxxers have nothing to do with this lockdown.
Shit happens.
"Servile". Oh I see you would rather be selfish and "Free". Twisting this situation to say the leaders in Health and Politics are cowing people is absolute tripe.
The servility you see is actually recognition of a dangerous and costly situation. Any other response is actually ridiculous. We get one chance to get this right, and this pandemic is getting worse round the world.
The rapid growth of the cluster, the age of the ill indicate the danger of of this highly infectious virus. We are in a "war" situation and "shutting up shop" is necessary.
That "Dear Leader" business is a very poor argument at any time. Politics should be put aside. The virus will infect Left Right and Centre.
Shutting up shop is only necessary because we have had an absolutely pathetic vaccine stoll-out thus far. New Zealand and Australia have handled the stroll out very badly and we are now paying the price. A complete lack of urgency because we apparently didn't have covid. Well guess what. Knock, knock, its here!
You can spin this which ever way you want. However all roads come back to dear leader and her band of merry followers. Period.
I hope you find some peace. Will not bother repeating any information about where we stand globally on access to vaccines and why.
I'll help you out:
Where – 118th globally
Why – because we didn't bother ordering until January because we apparently don't have covid
there there
Israel
David, your "complete lack of urgency" line and that "dear leader and her band of merry followers" jab read like spin. The speed of NZ’s vaccine roll out is determined by vaccine supply (duh!) Rather than focus on the "stroll out", ihmo we should focus on what our Govt could have done to secure vaccine doses more rapidly, and should be doing now as the global number of active Covid-19 cases (currently 17,482,862) continues to soar towards the crest of this pandemic's third wave.
For example, it might be good to have a discussion about whether using vaccines other than Pfizer's COMIRNATY is worth exploring, if NZ does indeed have spare doses of other Covid-19 vaccines, e.g. AZ doses diverted from Italy to Fiji. Or should the NZ government consider increasing taxes to fund the development of a dedicated vaccine production facility in NZ as insurance against future pandemics?
As this pandemic rolls on, remember that NZ's Covid-19 statistics (both cases per million (= 587), and deaths per million (= 5)) place us in an enviable position. Some NZers know just how 'Covid-lucky' we are – go team, get your jabs; I've had mine!
https://covid19.govt.nz/
We didn’t have vaccines like the 117 countries ahead of us because we didn’t order them until January. To have supply you need to order. Duh!
Next issue on the horizon … boosters. Guessing we’ve learned our lesson and have ordered those early.
Link?
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/covid-19-vaccine-strategy-planning-insights/covid-19-purchasing-vaccines
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300250582/covid19-vaccine-rollout-to-resume-from-8am-on-thursday-after-pause
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/449333/new-zealand-to-trial-new-covid-19-vaccine
Heads of agreement is not an order. An order is an order. First order 54k vaccines order placed January
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-national-questions-front-of-queue-claim-after-revealing-first-pfizer-order-just-54000-doses/OBVQ22LAZOPFTROFBEWVI4BCAU/
Thanks for the link. We know Comirnaty is safe, now, but did Medsafe drag the chain? They had 49 staff ~20 years ago, and around 60 now.
Israel has a 7-day moving average of 20 deaths/day from Covid-19. Scaled for population that would translate to 10 Kiwis dying every day. The current death rate in NZ is 0. Just saying.
Inconveniently high vaccination trend here now too.
https://twitter.com/David_Cormack/status/1428218856561020936
Doesn't include yesterday.
Yes, I am throwing a tantrum because my jab got cancelled and now it's another three weeks before I'll get it. Thanks for asking.
You have my most sincere sympathy.
Does this mean I should forget this comment?
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09-08-2021/#comment-1807868
I don’t see why it doesn’t point to your precise comment. It is in the bit I copied.
I added this bit and now it does point to it.
Nah, don't forget it. Keep it on file and rub my nose in it any time you feel like it. Although I'm sure I've made much nastier comments that would be much better for rubbing my nose in.
BTW, the only comment I made on that OM was this one, which seems very innocuous by my standards.
If you want the link to go direct to the comment, make sure there's some text to go with so it's in a sentence. Even if the text is just a single full-stop.
. https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-09-08-2021/#comment-1807868
Oh I see. That will probably explain why it suddenly showed up when I edited it and then when I edited it again it vanished.
And I have had my first jab, as it happens. I had to moan to finally get into the queue but I had it about 3 weeks ago. I would have been due for my second today as it happens but I read the stuff about a longer gap being better and had got it switched to about mid-September. What are the chances we will still be in lockdown then?
What, news flash, we are jabbing at rates ahead of what the UK and US ALREADY HAVE DONE. Oh, the irony.
you'll get over it
Pete said it best, imho.
And it’s all dear leader and the gummints fault.
Just a point, vaccination does not stop spreading. I helps to stop/reduce effects in the vaccinated.
The fully vaccinated appear to be super spreaders. The experiment continues……
What's your evidence for saying "The fully vaccinated appear to be super spreaders."?
Utter bullshit TC, go spread your misinformation somewhere else.
About an hour ago on Aljazeera TV new scientific information on the Pfizer vaccine will be released tomorrow. In the US a booster jab will be administered 8 months after the second jab due to antibodies waning.
All the more reason for everyone to get vaccinated if possible. Vaccinations for other diseases usually stop the spread, so if 80% of the population is vaccinated then usually the unvaccinated aren't infected & get a "free ride".
Looks like those who choose not to get the jab this time won't be able to rely on herd immunity for their protection.
dv
The vaccines reduce infections and spreading considerably (including delta), but not completely.
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227713/coronavirus-infections-three-times-lower-double/
Finally, a modest victory of sense over irrational loonies, that should help take a little bit of the edge off a public health crisis causing huge unnecessary suffering.
No, nothing to do with covid, it's just that golden rice has finally been granted the last approval needed to allow commercial growth and distribution in the Philippines, which will alleviate the problem of vitamin A deficiency a bit.
Hopefully, the benefits of this will open people's eyes a little bit more to the benefits of GMOs in dealing with numerous food supply issues coming at us fast.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/philippines-approves-golden-rice/
Oh, the Golden Rice swindle! The problem (one of the many problems) with Golden Rice was that no one wanted to eat it because of its off-putting colour; it looked to rice-eaters as though it was spoiled.
I wonder how they've solved that issue?
…it looked to rice-eaters as though it was spoiled.
So can we assume that not all rice eaters suffer from VAD blindness? How on earth did they avoid it? Its a mystery.
You got any evidence for your assertion that the colour is a problem because people think it's spoiled? I've had a look, and can't find any evidence. I currently work with a majority Filipino workforce, and yellow-coloured rice appears fairly frequently at smoko. So it looks to me like that assertion is just something somebody made up to try to spread false fear, uncertainty, doubt.
As for swindles, the swindling going on about golden rice comes from the organics industry trying to protect their business model of selling the perception of benefits that are non-existent, and the likes of Greenpeace trying to protect their business model of spreading vague fears so they can sell themselves as the solution, to rake in donations and provide a very nice living to those at the top of the organisation thank you very much.
Your Filipino friends' yellow-coloured rice is likely that way because they added yellow-coloured spices to it, not because it came pre-yellowed from the sack! Funny how logical explanations can expose brash assertions.
As to "making it up", to the best of my knowledge and based upon the time, a number of years ago when I researched the Golden Rice issue, I learned of this factor, which seemed to me to be the critical one in the failure of up-take the first time around. I'm still of the view that this was a significant factor. I am however, not interested in going into bat on this issue, thanks.
In other words, you're happy to toss out a vague unfounded but scary-sounding assertion. But unwilling to put any effort into backing it up.
In other words, I can't be arsed searching for something I found many years ago, despite the fact that the concept I've provided is entirely logical and resisted your efforts to make it seem illogical.
And 🙂 It’s hardly a “scary-sounding assertion” – The rice-eating community weren’t scared by the yellow rice, they just didn’t want to eat it, coz it looks spoiled.
In other you got nuthin'. But it's random idea that fits with your feels and reckons, so you'll keep repeating it regardless of it being untrue.
Idiot.
I've searched for evidence of opposition to golden rice on the basis that it looks like spoiled rice, and turned up nothing. Searching for images of spoiled rice turns up plenty, but the images look nothing like golden rice.
[please tone down the antagonism. There are plenty of politics to argue here without resorting to that. thanks – weka]
Andre; I'm puzzled by your antagonistic approach. You are clearly pro-GE and regard those who are not as "irrational loonies". I've not made any comment at all about GE, yet you're treating me as one of your "irrational loonies", even calling me an idiot, despite the fact that I've stuck closely to logical argument, rather than irrational name-calling.
It's surely a puzzle.
mod note for you Andre.
Noted.
But it sure would be nice if this bit of this site's policy would get taken a bit more seriously:
True, but I think that Robert did provide a coherent and logical explanation for his belief and an explanation for why he wasn't going to link chase. He also did so in an evenhanded way without upping the ante, and responded to the points you raised. In other words, he wasn't just making a claim of fact and then aggressively doubling down on it without attempting to explain (which is what happens here).
Not everything we know is provable, but we can still communicate it without making a hard claim of fact.
eg he said, this is something I learned some years ago, I don't have a source for it now, but it makes sense because [explanation]
vs someone saying repeatedly, this thing is true, I know it's true, you're wrong.
I found a starting link pretty easily, and I suspect others would have too if the conversation didn't open with calling people irrational loonies.
Analysis of the causes of postharvest rice grain yellowing [2008]
https://agris.fao.org/agris-search/search.do?recordID=PH2009001522
fourth hit in my google search.
Did you find anything that suggests this yellowing is related to a reluctance to adopt golden rice?
Or find any images that suggest rice spoiled this way appears even vaguely similar to golden rice?
no, it's a starting link to explore the issue. I found the idea interesting, but no so interesting that I'm going to spend time on it.
Andre – can you, I wonder, conceive of the possibility of a factor that might influence the up-take of a certain product by a certain culture, that was not foreseen by the producers, that was not related to the technology used to produce the crop and was a cultural factor, such as colour-preference, an aversion to a product-name, the selection of an inappropriate celebrity for the promotion of the product, etc.
Just a thought-experiment for you and I'm genuinely interested to know.
We're in the middle of a severe housing crisis, a global pandemic catching up on us, dire public health infrastructure etc etc – and all you can think of is the colour of your rice. Oh puhleese!
All I can think of – are your reading skills really that deficient? Have a look around the rest of today's Open Mike and see what other topics I've commented on. Let alone other days and posts.
And further to your reading comprehension deficiency, the issue around golden rice is not the colour, but that it can alleviate some of the horrible blight of hundreds of millions of people suffering vitamin A deficiency. At zero cost.
WHO estimate that between a quarter million and half a million kids every year go blind from vitamin A deficiency, and that half of those die within a year. And that's just one of the problems caused by vitamin A deficiency.
Blocking the prevention of even just a few of those cases because some privileged wealthy westerners hold some evidence-free irrational beliefs and wish to impose them on others is indeed something I'm utterly disgusted about. It's human suffering many orders of magnitude beyond the first world problems of a few people here being unable to buy a house or not getting a vaccination as quickly as they would like.
They should market as 'presaffronised for your enjoyment'.
You're such a wag!
It would only work on those rice-eaters with zero sense-of-smell: that is, de minimis 🙂
(plus those with no smell-able friends)
🙂
It's a thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffronisation
Yes, I think the yellow rice argument is a red (or is that yellow) herring. Because many people colour their rice with tumeric, so how it would be an issue is a mystery beyond straw clutching.
My biggest issue with GE is contamination of wild stock. Yes it happens, frequently. My second issue is corporate control of food lines. Big oil has shown us what they're prepared to do to retain riches and power, why big Ag and the likes of Monsanto would be any different is a fairy tale mystery to me.
"current regulatory systems are unable to protect against the risk of GMO contamination… farmers are reluctant to seek redress for fear of possible patent infringement…"
Wilson, S. (2014). Induced Nuisance: Holding Patient Owners Liable for GMO Cross-Contamination. Emory LJ, 64, 169.
"Genetically Modified Crops cannot co-exists with organic and heirloom crops. GMOs decimate their organic ancestors at the expense of agrobiodiversity and with little regard for environmental consequences. The pollen of monoculture plants cross-pollinates plants of the same species that may be quite far away in a process called genetic drift. This would be natural and necessary if it were not for the unnatural and dangerous traits that are inserted into GMOs through human hands, thereby often recklessly infiltrating organic or heirloom plants with GMO traits."
Steier, G. (2016). Textbox: Cross-Contamination, Genetic Drift, and the Question of GMO Co-existence with Non-GM Crops. In International Food Law and Policy (pp. 177-178). Springer, Cham.
There's loads of these. But nothing to see here right? Stupid know nothing hippies getting in the way of PROGRESS and GROWTH. People are starving because of inequities in distribution, not lack of GE.
White rice, when spoiled in storage, yellows. Experienced rice-eaters recognise un-cooked, yellowed rice as something to be avoided (it's a taste-thing, not and aesthetics-thing).
Rosemary @ 9:38 alludes to the real reason for the problem; lack of vegetables through capitalist pressures (please correct me if I’m wrong, Rosemary 🙂
You are entirely correct Robert. I am making it my mission these days to avoid stating the obvious. Allowing folks who haven't already done so to work it out for themselves.
(I'm one of those Luddite types that reckons that it is such supreme arrogance for mankind to presume to perfect in a few decades what nature has developed over millennia.
All was perfect before we buggered it up.)
I could bang on about monoculture…and I guess there's a reason why the VAD population do not grow a variety of food…but like you, I can't be arsed right now. Too busy.
Mixing potting mix and filling bags and containers for tomatoes, curcubits, sweetcorn etc currently thriving in the hothouse. Even here in the Far Far North it is still a little cool outdoors…but when it warms…I'll be ahead!
You, me and DB Brown are executives in Irrational Loonies Inc. it transpires; we should negotiate a substantial salary package from Andre before we go any further – irrational lunacy can't be expected to be provided for free!
Good on you for your foresight; the warm weather will be upon us before we know it and home-grown food is likely to be the game-changer for many New Zealand/Aotearoans 🙂 I've Running Butter Bean seedlings popping up in the warmth of our tunnel house just now. They're just like Scarlet Runners, only their long pods are butter-yellow! Exciting! Not GE, I should add 🙂
Last year…not enough stored water for summer vege gardens in poor soils. All was grown, harvested, stored and seed saved by mid January. This year…an abundance of stored water and much better soils due to green mulching. And our own sheeps' poo. Learning that 'full sun' does not work up here where the sun is so intense. (We are as far north as you are south.)Koanga heirloom seeds working well…many sourced from this rohe. Got to adapt and work with nature.
As for my food forest….I am experimenting with growing trees from seed. So far I have papaya, feijoas, persimmons, mangoes, and I started some pineapple seed sprouting this morning. Have usual grafted trees growing….but growing from seed is fun. One mate is into grafting and another is an ace at growing from cuttings.
"We are as far north as you are south." – yikes! 🙂
This is music to my ears 🙂 Delighted to hear you are well-watered this time around.
Growing trees from seed is the work of angels. Once you've done it, there's no stopping; it can only end well 🙂
I've just come in from harvesting some mid-winter spuds for a frittata. My mate has fresh tomatoes, outdoors, just around the corner (central Auckland), I'd have some of them on top of the frittata too if not for lockdown. Fresh herbs and greens, chives, onion, mmm. Getting hungry now. Will add cheese, because I'm a damn patriot!
So easy to do lots of food in a small space. High value nutrition, not that store bought nonsense bred into banality and sprayed into submission.
Times are certainly changing. A broad variety of types of food will see us through where monocultures can fail. I like to put lots of types of plants in various places and see which ones survive and which don't. From seed and cuttings this is a relatively cheap way to 'know your land' fairly quickly. Seasonal and weather related variance will keep you guessing long enough to keep it interesting.
The Taro retreats into a sunken path in drought, and moves upslope under the macadamia with water available. The bananas love a bowl, to retain both moisture and nutrients, but a bowl on a slope, so they don't rot in the wet. Nearly all land has some slope, a few degrees is enough. I have 3 bunches emerging on 8 stems. Another bunch ripening on my doorstep, so that was 4 bunches from 9 stems. The secret is chicken bedding, and a sweet location.
Got giant thyme grown all through winter too, plus peppers. Pulled a bonus wee kumara out while getting some spuds. Fresh as fresh ever gets. Bounty.
There's a few of us permies on my block now. We're swapping and learning together, always something to eat, still haven't utilised the half of our combined sections.
The 1/8th acre dream!
People are starving because of inequities in distribution, not lack of GE.
Please explain to me why the existence of inequities in distribution should stop efforts to improve the nutritional value of the main staple food of impoverished malnourished people.
As for loss of heirloom varieties, that is primarily driven by big ag taking over the areas where those heirloom varieties have been cultivated. It happens because of big ag, and it happens whether the monoculture is of a conventionally bred or mutation bred * or a GMO crop. It's big ag that's the problem, not the specific technique used to create the characteristics of the organism they're growing.
In the case of golden rice, it's a specific attempt to take the benefits of a powerful tool out of the hands of big ag, and give it to the small farmers to benefit from it. It's taking power out of the hands of big ag, giving it to those that have been shat upon by big ag.
* Seriously, why is mutation breeding acceptable to organic farmers and others opposed to big ag? Mutation bred organisms don't require the extensive safety testing GMOs do. But I can't think of a better technique for unleashing the triffids or Audrey 2 than inducing massive random mutations across the entire genome, then only checking and selecting for the few traits of interest. To me, the lack of opposition to mutation breeding amidst the rabid opposition to GMOs just shows how misguided and irrational the anti-GMO crowd really is.
Champions of GE to address climate change have an extraordinary blindness with regards to how evolution works, and how corporate interests are trying to control global food supplies.
Our greatest hope is more diversity, not more monoculture. Also dismantling of corporations into manageable entities that don't hold sway over governments.
“misguided and irrational”
above that we have
“irrational loonies”
Hey, fuck you.
Dietary advice, dietary variation, and 2 x annual vitamin A caps for youth are solving the VAD problem. While Golden Rice…
"Based on IRRI’s documents, Golden Rice contains less than 10% of an equivalent amount of beta-carotene in carrots. As mentioned above, even the US FDA took notice of the Golden Rice’s low beta-carotene content. Citing the IRRI report, the average beta-carotene of Golden Rice is a measly 1.26 µg/g, which is even lower than the 1.6 µg/g beta-carotene expression of the very first Golden Rice generation back in the 2000s."
https://grain.org/en/article/6067-don-t-get-fooled-again-unmasking-two-decades-of-lies-about-golden-rice
You wanna know why I'm passionate?
I'm utterly disgusted at those in privileged positions in wealthy countries trying to deny a literally life-saving innovation to impoverished and malnourished people in desperate need of everything they can get to help their situation.
This particular innovation was developed and is distributed outside the control of big ag and other shitty organisation. It has zero demonstrable downsides for those people in need of it's benefits, and is a vast improvement on the other options actually available to them.
But the opposition to it in among privileged wealthy people is not based on demonstrable evidence, but appears entirely rooted in vague feels and reckons about it being against some righteous way of doing things.
Sure. And others are equally passionate because they see people starving happening because of the centre left, neoliberal politics you support. Or the BAU ag and industry you support that is killing the planet.
Explaining why you're disgusted adds to the debate because people can support or argue against your reasoning and beliefs (calling people loonies leads to flaming and people not listening to each other).
It seems to me that planting spinach or similar green leaf plants around the edges of the rice paddies would be a much better solution to vitamin A deficiency.
I think they grow lots of mangoes in the Philippines, too.
That seems to me also, pwmcm.
We need to be doing polyculture for other reasons too, so win, win, win.
and I'm guessing (haven't read the whole thread to see if this is covered), that part of the problem is rice being grown for cash cropping rather than food for locals. The latter is more conducive to both health and ecology.
Yes. I understand Andre's concern and frustration: the issue of human health and the tragedy of the effects of malnutrition add a great deal of heat to any argument. The solutions offered seem to divide us left and right, which is telling (not sure what it tells 🙂 Your suggestions, and those of Rosemary and DB seem nuanced, holistic and multi-layered. Andre's, not so much but this might be just a matter of perception. It's an on-going puzzle.
I still have some hope that we (humans, lefties, kiwis, whoever) can develop communication that allows for development of ideas and solutions that are meeting points. The hard man, fisticuffs debate culture on the left is a problem for that, including on TS.
I also wonder if people are tired, scared, stressed, and just running out of patience for nuance and consideration. Even more need for the above in that case, but a conundrum.
Not aiming that at Andre in particular, I think most of us are struggling with the way the world is now at some level and this impacts on how we communicate or approach politics.
Breathe, and listen to your raging heart. That’s a tell-tale sign that you’re stressed. When people yell, people yell back. When people go silent, people think. More important than what is said is the pauses between, the brief moments of silence, what is not said but could be; that’s the magic moment of creation. The same in music and art in general: less is more. The old Masters and Composers knew the importance of contrast and change of tempo and volume, and silence. Enter a Mall and a wall of sound will ‘greet’ you to numb the senses and hypnotise you to buy and consume, aimlessly and senselessly. Here on TS we are bombarded with walls of words that burry the mind in an avalanche of meaningless words. We become unthinking lazy zombies with aggressive and destructive attitudes towards others. Breathe.
It seems to me that we are being "broken" by all this (see"the crises of the world") and, like caterpillars in-crysalis, we are going to be "pithed" (see, toads/experimental) by circumstance, and emerge, butterflies! 🙂
Now is the time for presenting form.
Growing golden rice doesn't prevent growing other fruits and vegetables. It's a false dichotomy to think of doing this instead of that. Better to look at all improvements that can add together.
As an improvement for impoverished malnourished people, golden rice adds significant nutritional value to the main staple food consumed by the huge majority of impoverished malnourished people. It doesn't displace anything else.
Those impoverished malnourished people would love to be able to add more varied fruits and vegetables to their diets, and maybe even occasionally animal protein, but it's other obstacles than rice supply that stand in the way of that.
Not least of which is the enormous population density of 368 people per sq km (including all the regularly erupting volcanoes). That extremely high population density really puts a premium on extracting the most calories feasible from any given plot of arable land.
For comparison, New Zealand's population density is 18 per sq km, 1/20th that of the Philippines. If someone's lived experience here is having the wealth and privilege of plenty of land to grow fruits and veges to supplement their diet largely obtained from elsewhere, then frankly they have NFI of the food supply pressures on impoverished malnourished people in places like the Philippines. Nor what mitigation measures might realistically be achievable.
That's a well-presented argument, Andre.
Questions that present begin: is it true that "Growing golden rice doesn't prevent growing other fruits and vegetables. "
Are workers in Golden Rice fields free and able to grow their own veggies, or is their time and land taken for the money-crop? Are they pressured to work for money then spend it on "packaged" food, as is reportedly, so often the case?
As to "calories" – does Golden Rice offer more calories than other crops (DB Brown challenged that claim, elegantly, I thought).
It seems counter-intuitive to claim that "wealth and privilege" is a pre-requisite to growing fruits and veggies. Fruit and veggies have been grown by money-less communities since time-imermorial, like, forever, it seems.
I'm not nay-saying your claims, just asking for clarification.
Growing golden rice doesn't prevent the growing of other fruits and vegetables any more than growing regular rice does. The main difference golden rice has is that it puts beta-carotene into the rice grains, which regular rice doesn't. The plant as a whole isn't really doing much different, beta-carotene is present in the rest of the plant in both golden rice and regular rice. Chemically, beta-carotene is purely hydrogen and carbon, so golden rice is not taking up trace elements or scarce nitrogen or phosphorus that regular rice doesn't.
Calories wise or productivity wise, I haven't seen anything that says there's significant difference between golden rice and regular rice. It's just that rice gives very high calories per hectare compared to alternative crops on that land. Hence the pressure to grow rice rather than something else that may be more nutritious but has significantly less productivity in terms of calories. It's just the pressure to simply produce enough calories to feed that high population density.
Having the land and the time to grow veges is a manifestation of wealth and privilege. Especially in extremely high population density places, such as the Philippines, that are poor yet extensively urbanised.
Being described as wealthy and privileged may seem a WTF? moment to rural poor people, both here and in less fortunate countries. But having the time and land to grow your own varied food really is wealth and privilege compared to the conditions suffered by those that haven't "made it" in the cities. As well as those trapped in a rural cycle of feeling they have to absolutely maximise production from their land to meet external financial pressures. Or landless rural poor such as itinerant rural workers.
Hmmm… you seem to have simply reposted your original claims, rather than addressing my questions…
You say, "Growing golden rice doesn't prevent the growing of other fruits and vegetables any more than growing regular rice does."
I say, "growing regular rice, or bananas, coffee, tea etc, DOES prevent the workers from growing their own food. The land is claimed for commerce, the time is claimed for 'employment". Have you a response for this, Andre?
Then your objections should be to the existing systems of agriculture and commerce in general, and should not have any distinction between golden rice and regular rice.
Because there is no difference between golden rice and regular rice in terms of land use, labour, commerce, external inputs etc.
The only difference changing from regular rice to golden rice will be that those that are vitamin A deficient because of their diets will become less vitamin A deficient if they are able to change the regular rice they eat now over to golden rice.
Which will have follow-on beneficial effects in reducing the time and expense of vitamin A supplements. And reducing the suffering and time and expense of treating people for the effects of vitamin A deficiency.
Well, Andre, my "objections" weren't objections at all; I simply offered my view that the efforts to make Golden Rice the rice-of-choice, fell down because the locals rejected it because it looked squiffy 🙂
And, indeed, my "objections" to "the existing systems of agriculture and commerce in general" – yes, that is what I'm objecting to! GE rice fits right in there and I'm not changing my opinion just because it's clever science 🙂
In closing: growing food for your self and for your family is not something available only to those with "wealth and privilege" – it's for us all. Go well!
So you offered your view on the basis of no evidence that you have been able to provide, and are sticking to it in the face of contrary information. That's irrational.
You are continuing your objection to a specific instance of GMO rice because of your objections to the general systems of big ag. Even though that particular instance of GMO rice was specifically developed and distributed outside of big ag, specifically to enable people to break free from big ag. And help them keep out of the clutches of big medicine and big pharma. That's irrational.
You appear to cling to your belief that growing your own fuit and veg is available to everyone, despite there being numerous classes of people that do not possess the wealth and privilege of the time and land and whatever other resources needed to do so, whether it be access to natural light, sufficient water, stability or whatever else. That's irrational.
I won't use the "L" word, because that seems to be a bit triggering.
Well, Andre, you provided no "contrary information" AT ALL to my suggestion that the GE rice wasn't popular because it looked spoiled; but hei aha! I'm not, despite your claim, objecting to Golden Rice, I'm simply saying, people didn't take a shine to it. That's my understanding. I searched my memory banks, somewhat depleted though they are, and discovered that the last time I engaged in this debate was on grubby old Kiwiblog, some 10 or so years ago! I've not commented there, or rather, been allowed to comment there, for many years, so it won't be difficult, should you choose to pursue the matter, to unearth the thread of discussion there; my alter-ego, Greenfly, was flying the flag back then (it may have been Village Idiot, or perhaps Hugh Manatee, who can remember back that far 🙂
You're also being irrational about how the burden of proof works. You made the assertion, you prove it. Nobody else has to disprove any random assertion you make, it's up to you to prove it.
Wow you sure do spin a lot of spin. The rice is a non-event insofar as Vitamin A content for helping people, and the ownership is in the hands of corporations, not given away as you allude to.
The vitamin A doesn't store, even if the rice does.
You are using hyperbole. Why don't you come out and tell us we are endangering children with our objection to this nonsense.
Decades in development, nothing special to see. Just the same old push, retreat, push again till this crap has its foot in the door. Ruthless commercialism.
My opposition is not rooted in vague feelings. It is rooted in knowledge of plant physiology, plant pathology and evolution – all of which I'm pretty damn good at. Add to that a lot of years working in a lot of growing systems.
Your argument is emotionally laden abusive garbage.
The general opposition to Golden Rice is nicely described in this quote from the second site I visited:
"Golden Rice is a techno-fix to malnutrition and a corporate ploy to control our agriculture. It is not needed by Asian people nor the world. Indeed, the solution to hunger and malnutrition lies in comprehensive approaches that ensure people have access to diverse sources of nutrition. Securing small farmers’ control over resources such as seed, appropriate technologies, water and land is the real key to improving food production and eradicating hunger and malnutrition."
https://grain.org/en/article/6067-don-t-get-fooled-again-unmasking-two-decades-of-lies-about-golden-rice
Should I continue? This is barrels/ducks stuff.
My first (light-hearted) search found this:
"Finally, there are social and cultural roadblocks. There are eating preferences deeply rooted in longstanding tradition. The yellow color of the rice may not be accepted because of different countries’ social and cultural history. (MASIPAG)."
https://med.nyu.edu/highschoolbioethics/genetically-modified-organisms-“golden-rice”-debate
(This was not a difficult thing to do).
Very very weak. To the point that I question your reading comprehension skills.
It doesn't say anything whatsoever about where those countries with resistance might be. It might be African or South American countries with cultural resistance to yellow rice. It doesn't even mention spoilage at all. It appears to be trying to reference MASIPAG as a source, but even that weak claim doesn't appear on MASIPAG's current gish-gallop of misinformation about why they oppose golden rice.
https://masipag.org/2020/08/why-we-oppose-golden-rice/
The Science Based Medicine article I started the thread with addresses the misinformation and misdirection techniques MASIPAG uses, but here it is again.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/philippines-approves-golden-rice/
Thanks for the link, Andre – it looks top-drawer, only it'll be wasted on me and my questionable reading comprehension skills. I'll stick with believing there are better ways to improve health than eating GE foods. I could be wrong about that, but it doesn't feel that way 🙂
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/podcast-card/the-path-to-a-housing-crisis
When you hear things described as unsustainable, know that it means that it will not remain….this situation will not be tolerated forever and then everyone loses….including those who think they are insulated.
Yet for some reason unexplained Australia – that nation so hated by the left – with policies very similar to NZ seems not to have a 'housing crisis'. Sure there are always marginalised in any society who will face homelessness and housing difficulties, but for the most part quality and affordability are not issues on the same scale they are in NZ except maybe in parts of Sydney and Melbourne.
Hell we're looking at buying some retirement units in Brisbane for $70k each. Think about that.
Part of the story is geography, there is just so much land in Aus compared to NZ. Another part is an efficient building industry, and another is a solid ASX that provides and alternative investment vehicle for people looking to fund their retirement. By comparison NZ is on the back foot on all of these measures. Still if you think the solution is to hope for the system to collapse …
And a big sovereign wealth fund that Muldoon cancelled our equivalent of.
Yes. Good point.
what is the basis of those wealth funds?….the same basis as the supposed value of our housing stock.
Australia has the same ponzi problem albeit slightly less pronounced .
The issues are not based in land availability or construction constraints but in credit…the basis of western economies since production was abandoned as the basis of growth.
The 'solution' will occur, whether it is a collapse of the housing ponzi that occurs before or in tandem with societal breakdown is the only question…thats what unsustainable means.
OK if you say so. In the meantime I'll just go ahead and buy some of those $70k units I think.
Shifting? Again? How awful for you. These might cheer you up.
"I'll just go ahead and buy a few units"
"I got paid more than most of you earn…"
Pretty sad, that such a mover and shaker like yourself is found here, rutting about in the mud with the hoi polloi. Don't you have real poor people to denigrate?
Opening an industrial plant, what a manly man. In the meantime, climate change. You're just depressing.
That's why walruses are jumping off cliffs.
That's why possums jump in front of cars.
You know we've got polar bears coming down from the North trying to mate with brown bears. That's an endangered species trying to sleep with a common species in order to save themselves.
And that's why Tories fuck pigs.
Interesting how that comment of mine above hit a nerve, obviously ironic as it was meant to be. Your reaction being a classic Karpman drama, you set the 'real poor people' up as the victims, me as their oppressor and your brave self as their rescuer. It's a con game – always has been.
Opening an industrial plant, what a manly man. In the meantime, climate change. You're just depressing.
Same plant that will be producing the first battery grade lithium hydroxide in Australia.
You're clearly a well educated and capable person with a great deal of experience. So far I've been reading your fresh contributions here with some considerable interest. While I definitely have an idealist streak, one that has kept me active here since the site was started in 2007, over time I've definitely become more pragmatic in that reality demands we consider all of the effective tools available to us – and that includes many of the themes you've been writing about.
In respect of climate change I've written here previously that the solution will come from a combination of both an agricultural, industrial and ultimately a political evolution expressing the fundamental unity of the human species. Clearly each of these themes is so extensive no single individual can grasp any single one, much less all three. Which is why we need to understand how to build each other up, communicate effectively and act with common purpose.
On that, in the industrial front.
There was an annoying video article in Stuff about something that I didn’t think would actually happen. Producing and delivering steel made without coal or carbon is important. About 8% of the worlds emmissions are from making steel, and most of that is from the coking coal. I didn’t think that there was a realistic way out of that. Because we need steel to run a technology based economy similar to our current one. Certainly need it to transition to any other without a human die-back.
A Reuters text article explains it and it has the promo clip at the top. However it doesn’t explain the process apart from saying that they’re using Hydrogen.
A Forbes article from last year gives a better explanation. At a 20-30% cost above normal production costs, it is easily within a industrial roll-out level. Just add carbon taxes or costs.
By my reckoning, at a technical level, that leaves just 3 areas of technological concern. Concrete, mass air-travel, and shipping as large emitters with no current effective low or no-carbon emitter technology to be developed.
I agree with this post. Your bragging deserved a lampooning, and lampooning it got.
And, it's a bloody good joke.
Good-oh.
"Still if you think the solution is to hope for the system to collapse …"
I think Pat might have said the opposite to that, i.e. "this situation will not be tolerated forever and then everyone loses…" Those of us who care about actual outcomes are terrified of collapse, because we know that it will do the most harm to those already at the bottom of the pile. I favour radically truthful diagnoses of a problem, but very careful responses. The first part is important, because without it we will never summon the collective will to do anything.
The only trouble I have with a housing market collapse is that it can fall one of two ways: secure housing becomes possible for poorer people in their lifetime; or dwelling ownership becomes more concentrated as the upper middle class are kicked out of an exclusive club they were never wanted in from the start.
It will (not can) collapse because those that ultimately support it (those 'poorer' renters) cannot continue to support additional inflation and the raison d'etre disappears…..that pool gets larger and poorer by the auction.
A big reason is the very light weight and fragile nature of Aussie houses, no earthquake regulations and a lot less insulation to worry about , for instance when we build in ex100x50 at 450 to 600 centres they only need or used to when I was there ex75x35 and far wider centres. Not much fun in a cyclone but then when did the Aussies care much about sensible precautions anyway.
Termites though. 🙂
It's all concrete bricks and steel construction now. Very little timber used at all – even internally
We were house and cat sitting in Redcliffe on the Sunshine Coast four years ago. I saw a small movement on a board in the bathroom.. it was a termite munching a hole at quickly as I type this.
Luckily they had their yearly pest inspection happening that afternoon. It was dealt with. I thought "Wow! wood is no good unless it is treated or turpentine timber’, and nearby steel framing was going into newly built properties.
Results from a new high-quality trial of ivermectin are starting to come out. Not a final report, yet, but today is the first time I've seen info straight from the researchers. Conclusion: ivermectin doesn't do anything significantly useful against covid.
However, they did find that a different repurposed older drug, fluvoxamine, appears to have enough beneficial effects to be a useful addition to treatment regimes.
https://elemental.medium.com/ivermectin-for-covid-19-an-update-5e913bb49483
slide show from researchers: https://dcricollab.dcri.duke.edu/sites/NIHKR/KR/GR-Slides-08-06-21.pdf
There does indeed appear to be Big Pharma grifting going on over covid.
But the grifters aren't the vaccine manufacturers selling a safe product that actually mostly prevents getting infected and almost completely prevents serious disease and death for $50 for a 2-dose course.
Not compared to those selling a treatment that runs $1000 a course for treating the disease. That appear to have financial connections to lawmakers taking actions that appear intended to reduce vaccination rates and increase disease rates.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bc-us-virus-outbreak-florida-governor_n_611cd652e4b0e8ac7918df2a
One for Morrissey the 'transcriber' if he is still around:
https://twitter.com/danxduran/status/1427842726867791877
Please don't encourage him.
While the content is much funnier than the mozzie's third rate stenography efforts, stylistically it's even more painful than the mozzie's.
And that's sayin' something.
If you listened to whingy Eastwood getting arrested (and livestreaming the event for attention so this is entirely fair game) you'd see the format simply reflects his increasing hysteria and ridiculous plea for attention.
Indeed.
I just don't want anyone as unfunny as the mozzie thinking it's something to be emulated and filling this site with failed attempts to recreate it.
Yep, fair call.
That’s not gonna happen, again.
Thanks. I'm grateful for the work that goes into that.
I don't know if it's my screen settings, but the quoted text in screenshots within tweets is already annoyingly large on TS on my laptop.
Do you mean the Tweet @ 7, for example?
Looks like a normal quote in normal font size on my laptop screen.
Big on mine.
kind of but the text in tweet in #7 is also enlarged for effect so hard to use as an example. I was meaning tweets generally. I'll screenshot next time I see one
Thank you. Here's the audiovisual:
https://twitter.com/StrayDogNZ/status/1428143712651997187
Cluster…flies.
And, those glasses!
“We do not consent!
Okay, I consent, I’m coming”.
Classic!
I've never heard of this Vinnie Eastwood. When I saw the above clip, what I thought I saw was a piss-take; reading his smile and listening to his words it sounded like an actor on amateur dram night at the local repertory tasked to address a street corner meeting as a young Winston Churchill.
Long-time bit-part grifter. Like so many of their Amerkin brethren.
If I recognise him correctly, I've had the unpleasant experience of seeing him at TPPA protests in Auckland… megaphone in hand, rattling off on a tangent from why most were there.
Struck me as a bit of a plonker.
Unionists and students are much more dignified when they decide to get arrested.
Toddlers would be.
lol, yes, I suspect the mods would be jumping on that pretty damn quick.
That is both funny and factual at the same time.
Thought so too. Never understood the negativity directed at "the mozzie's third rate stenography efforts". Over the years I've found some of Morrissey's comments here to be LOL funny. Not everyone's cuppa, sure, but good medicine for me – thanks Moz.
Because misleading, usually. That and reliance on 'hurr hurr hurr' too often.
Sorry Sacha – cracked up just reading "hurr hurr hurr" – we're all individuals, and not all humour needs to be factual, imho.
I'm sure it's all still available and more over at his own blog. It should be easy to find, he's linkwhored it here often enough.
"Linkwhored" is an example of the provocative antagonism that puzzles me so – just my opinion.
Bit of an amateur imo. Here's a crack at Judith.
Milk powder, swamp Kauri
Bullying and bagging Maori
Play the victim, pull the gun
She's a fucking nut this one
'Demonized' for being white
A career built of utter shite
Now she teeters at the brink
The last resort of shit and stink
Says her dirty days are done
Plays the race card on day one
Disavows her former friend
Where do you think this will end?
Swamp digger, Oravida
#1 goal, crush our leader
There to fight and ne'er to help
Captain of the cult of self.
Thanks DB Brown, excellent (imho) – every little bit helps
Morrissey’s effort dates from 2005; from the references in your ode I suspect it’s a bit more up-to-date.
Cheers. 2005 huh, well, he's consistent!
To be fair, sometimes he tickles the funny bone. With a strong emphasis on sometimes. If I saw a comic with that hit rate I'd avoid their performances.
There are comics with a similar hit rate self promoting ceaselessly as well. It does nothing to endear me to them.
When it comes to humour, one person's 'never' is another's 'sometimes' and a third person's 'often' – 'always' might be pushing it, but you never know.
I enjoy them too. So much faster to read than to listen, and Morrissey's take just relates to my sense of humour. I'm in no two minds about how he views certain people, and that appeals to me as he doesn't hide behind well-chosen words and sideways references.
Most readers should be able to distinguish narrative from framing, and interpret independently. But I get a fair few chuckles from Morrissey's framing.
"…All-told New Zealander consumed 26 petabytes of data yesterday – the equivalent of a Netflix HD stream running for 1000 years…"
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-lockdown-nz-internet-use-hits-new-record-how-close-we-are-to-the-limit/MEUPDMIQPLU56GO5JI6KIYQSTI/
So if we taxed that at 1c a gigabyte, around $95,000,000 a year would be available to (for example) NZ on Air to spend on NZ content for converged media.
Just saying.
Jeepers that seems a lot but to an untrained eye like mine it's also a mostly meaningless number. Though I appreciate the netflix analogy to try wrap my head around it…
That's like 365 000 people running netflix for 24 hours. Not THAT huge.
Agree on the tax, but how would they implement it. Streaming services are cheap but I'm sure they'll jack the prices once free alternatives like TVNZ have been buried. The tax might save local content from said burial.
The same amount of money would be obtained by a 1c per litre tax on oil consumed in NZ at about 150,000 barrels per day. I say this because I'm interested as to why there should be a tax on internet usage to fund NZ on Air.
I wonder what is the size of the carbon footprint of using 26 petabytes of data daily? That might better direct any possible data consumption tax (DST?) to a more applicable usage, like climate change concerns for example.
"… I say this because I'm interested as to why there should be a tax on internet usage to fund NZ on Air…"
It is the 21st century equivalent of the old fashioned TV license for to pay for public content, with the bonus it can be collected at source – the ISPs and phone providers
I use about 20GB a month on my phone, so for me it would be 20c a month on my phone bill and about $6-8 a month on our internet bill.
That’s one hell of a carbon foot print!
Imagine us all at home playing with our cryptocurrencies!
???
https://twitter.com/GoAngelo/status/1428138921565855755
Definition of "Expert"
x is the unknown quantity,
spurt is a drip under pressure.
Teen vaccine time.
https://twitter.com/medickinson/status/1428173570388086787
Great. That means that about 84% of our population now have an approved vaccine to take.
Pfizer apparently expect to submit data for 5 to 11 year olds in September, so when that happens we'll have a vaccine approved for about 94% of our population.
Whingers will need another topic. 🙂
I've just had a whinge about my jab yesterday getting cancelled. Does that count?
I'll allow it 🙂
This is nuts, children are least affected by the virus by a long way, and they're poor spreaders of it. Why are children being offered vaccination??
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57766717
Because "least affected" is not the same as "not affected". Covid is sufficiently harmful that even the least affected age group still suffer unacceptable harms. So it makes sense to reduce those potential harms as much as possible. By vaccinating them.
Children can still transmit the virus, even if not as much as adults. So from a public health perspective, it's best to reduce as much as possible the size of the population that get become infected and potential transmit to others. Vaccination achieves this.
mauī, developed and more fortunate under-developed countries vaccinate children against viral diseases. What's your main concern about vaccinating 12-15 year olds against Covid-19, and why do you think that health experts recommend vaccination?
Whatever else the future holds, if Covid-19 persists in some form then presumably you’ll have no objection to those 12-15 year olds getting jabs in 3 – 6 years’ time.
The general feeling I have on it is treating children who already have a robust immune response and aren't a risk group for disease, with a new medical treatment still undergoing testing and awaiting full approval is not what decent societies do.
Thanks; regrettably 'very low risk' isn't 'zero risk'. Imho decisions to vaccinate children should be left up to (responsible) parents, as is currently the case.
Any concerns about that, and any ideas about how best to protect children who have a less than robust immune system, or are otherwise 'Covid-unlucky'?
I'm afraid your link does have the familiar tinge of propaganda,
We don't know if people died of covid, or with covid (see below). Which to my mind does call into question not only that statistic, but the other stats used in that piece.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-side-effects-hospitalization-kids-11626706868
Please, don't be afraid. Not sure what's motivating your attempts to minimise the impact of this pandemic on young people. Are you implying that the CDC is exaggerating Covid deaths, and if so then to what possible end? Excess mortality analyses suggest that deaths due to Covid-19 infection have typically been underestimated.
Here's some more grist to your propaganda/conspiracy mill.
And here's an informative and (imho) balanced article [9 August] – something for everyone; just please don't label it propaganda.
Decision to vaccinate children rests on ethics rather than science
Tricky risk-benefit calculations are being made — with countries coming to different conclusions.
Not poor spreaders of Delta.
Experiment on the young to save the old and infirm…
You could ask what thousands of parents who owe their children's lives to other experimental surgeries and treatments think.
You could also ask the parents of children who didn’t survive experimental surgeries or treatments, and gauge their reflections on whether hopes for success or contributing to aid efforts to eliminate diseases, is too high a price to pay to avoid suffering or death.
It's possible they may view things a bit differently. Mile in who's shoes?
False dichotomy.
House prices above sustainable levels
“The key drivers of housing supply and demand have turned around,”
Maybe it isn't lack of supply that is keeping house prices high, which we keep being told is the cause of high house prices.
https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/news/2021/08/house-prices-above-sustainable-levels
[link tidied up]
[Changed user name to previously approved one. Please stick to one user name and e-mail address]
Austin Mitchell, who spent some time in NZ in 60s and 70s has died.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/18/former-great-grimsby-labour-mp-austin-mitchell-dies-aged-86
Wrote a gentle, only slightly satirical book on life in NZ.
The Half-Gallon Quarter-Acre Pavlova Paradise.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Half-Gallon_Quarter-Acre_Pavlova_Paradise
NZ was a workers paradise for a brief shining moment.
Until Roger & Ruth (2009 article).
And now, because Robbo is useless: Home ownership at lowest level since 1951
All the same, RIP to a top bloke.
No, until Roger and Richard.
I was referring to the finance ministers who really turbocharged inequality in NZ : Rogernomics (Roger Douglas) and Ruthanasia (Ruth Richardson)