Simon Bridges Going Blue in the Face Barking at Green Cars

51 comments on “Simon Bridges Going Blue in the Face Barking at Green Cars ”

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1. Chris T 1

   14 July 2019 at 4:05 pm

   " Thus, over time, the imported cars into NZ will be cleaner and fall progressively more into the lower CO2 bands."

   I think with Japan cleaning up their fleet over time cars being imported will be more and more 5-6 year old EVs which have batteries that only have an 8 year warranty.

   So it will end up being NZ turning into "The place we have to stitch up with battery disposal, so we don't have to"
   • Incognito 1.1

     14 July 2019 at 4:20 pm

     True, but that’s a different issue from CO2 bands of the imported cars.
     • Chris T 1.1.1

       14 July 2019 at 4:30 pm

       True
2. Ad 2

   14 July 2019 at 6:06 pm

   Plenty of policy space left by this government for National to outflank them if they wanted to.

   If I were National I would target fleets:

   – Government limousines

   – All government Departments with large fleets e.g. Health, Education, Police, NZTA

   – Then all Crown agencies such as universities, Kiwirail

   – Then the major corporates with major reliance on the state:

   all the electricity companies with Crown 51% holdings

   all the polytechs

   all the unions

   all the health and justice and education trusts who contract to the state agencies

   all the local governments across New Zealand, and their transport agencies

   – After that you would go for the taxi fleets, rental vehicle fleets, and courier fleets

   That would keep the industry busy for a while.

   But MoT probably didn't have the nerve to put up something bold. They'd start weeping attempting a cross-agency procurement policy.
   • michelle 2.1

     15 July 2019 at 9:42 am

     I think they( national and co) will need more than that to get back in power as they had 9 yrs to deliver 'a brighter future' instead they delivered more homelessness, more relative poverty, more inequalities, immigration of around a million people, where are the houses, schools, hospitals, roads and money to pay for all these things to deal with more population growth.
     • jcuknz 2.1.1

       18 July 2019 at 8:05 am

       Sadly I agree with you but would ask how different is the current mob running the country, So pre-ocupied with doing it themselves they have failed to enlist the support of business who in a small way, despite everything, have and are showing the way.
       Way back i suggested a Nat/Lab meld was the way to progress the country with the sensible folk from each side working together for the good of he country. Still my view.
3. patricia bremner 3

   14 July 2019 at 8:59 pm

   They won't have heated seats Ad Cheers
   • Ad 3.1

     14 July 2019 at 9:05 pm

     Boooo!

     My Peugeot 508 does! Great in winter.
     • David Mac 3.1.1

       14 July 2019 at 10:16 pm

       I trust you have a "Rainbow Warrior – We will never forget" sticker on your car.

       If you haven't, can I post you one please?

       I'm kidding, when it comes to guilty by association, I'm a plague carrier.

       It's been done to death but it's such a great story. "I don't swear, smoke or drink."
       • David Mac 3.1.1.1

         14 July 2019 at 10:16 pm

         Oh fuck, I left my cigs down the pub.
   • mpledger 3.2

     14 July 2019 at 10:29 pm

     Leafs have heated seats and steering wheels.
     • David Mac 3.2.1

       14 July 2019 at 11:08 pm

       Apparently the Nissan/Renault marketing department have decided that your 'Leafs' is correct mpledger. I think that it would of been way cooler to run with the plural "Leaves".
4. roblogic 4

   14 July 2019 at 9:15 pm

   Still doesn't mention the elephant in the room… the self destructive policy of endless economic growth pursued by all parties… exacerbated by unsustainable levels of immigration… these are taboo
   • David Mac 4.1

     14 July 2019 at 11:18 pm

     On a personal level, I'm always on the lookout for where I might turn a dollar and my family immigrated here about 150 years ago, we're serial immigration perps. Damned generations of us.

     I'm not feeling the guilt Rob
     • David Mac 4.1.1

       14 July 2019 at 11:23 pm

       Immigrants take nothing from us that we can't reach out and get ourselves. Nobody thrives on the couch.
       • roblogic 4.1.1.1

         15 July 2019 at 12:34 am

         I am not blaming immigrants, I am criticising govt policy that fills NZ with cars and pollution at an alarming rate
         • David Mac 4.1.1.1.1

           15 July 2019 at 12:53 am

           I think you're right Rob. There is little downside to us looking more closely at the 2nd hand Japanese imports we've been hoovering up for decades.

           These imports have many taxes included in their sticker price.

           The quick way to get NZ's fleet Green and get elected next time is not to legislate but to simply make it very attractive for the marketplace to import emission friendly rides.
           • David Mac 4.1.1.1.1.1

             15 July 2019 at 1:08 am

             When it is profitable to import and retail emission tolerable vehicles, our taxes won't need to fund the 'Go Electric Mr Dinosaur' ads, the importers will.
             • David Mac …

               15 July 2019 at 1:23 am

               Why are electric cars painted? Shouldn't they be wearing sunlight capture cells all over?

               Strong marketing potential. "1 day in Longreach Qld and this car's tank went from E to F."
5. David Mac 5

   14 July 2019 at 9:53 pm

   On the sports field or in politics to win requires targeting an opponents weak points. Kiwis love making greener cars sexy. It's a stupid target Simon, don't slag them, tell us how you'd do more.

   Hitting on Green cars while there are 100 people lined up in the rain before dawn at a South Auckland WINZ office…get with the program Nats. We love greening up the fleet, standing in a pre-dawn queue at Manurewa to put cornflakes on the table is an open wound.

   Oh for an opposition of substance.
6. Wayne 6

   15 July 2019 at 7:36 am

   It is almost certain the Tesla 3 will be under $80,000 in 2021. Tesla will absolutely make sure it is, so that it qualifies for the $8,000 subsidy.

   The press release did make me think about winners and losers (in voter cohorts) of the policy.

   Losers

   Rural new Zealand, basically all losers. They will have to pay more. Low income suburbs, basically losers, since many also have large families. So small fuel efficient vehicles and EV's don't work for them. Tradies, all losers, four door utes get the full $,3000 surcharge

   Winners

   High income, inner city suburbs, all winners. EV's and Plugin Hybrids are prefect for them. Older New Zealanders, mostly winners, EV's will suit many. High income suburbs generally, probably winners, EV's are an ideal second car choice.

   Middling

   Most New Zealanders. Many will buy hybrids and some can buy EV's. But many can't, since at the moment hybrids are too small or too expensive. But that will rapidly change as hybrids cover a much bigger range of vehicles.

   Many if not most Green voters come from winners, so the policy is good for them. Labour, more mixed. Those who live in inner city suburbs are winners, those in poorer suburbs are losers. National is also mixed, the rural voters are all losers, but those in affluent suburbs will be winners. NZF, mostly losers, though some older voters will be winners.

   Tradies (all of whom are losers) used to split between Labour and National. Probably now more National and NZF. I imagine Winston will find a way to protect them. Probably by having no pollution charge if the vehicle is purchased for a business use.
   • Robert Guyton 6.1

     15 July 2019 at 7:47 am

     Headline: Mapp – All rural New Zealanders are losers!

     "Rural new Zealand, basically all losers", says National's Wayne Mapp in a statement posted on toady's “Open Mike" column of the ever-popular blog, The Standard.
     “Tradies” too, get the “Mapp” treatment; “Tradies (all of whom are losers)”, echoing Bill English’s infamous “young New Zealanders are lazy” statement that so incensed the nation in recent times.
   • Graeme 6.2

     15 July 2019 at 8:24 am

     In respect to tradies and farmers with their double cabs, I suspect the motor companies will just absorb the $3k in the rather fat margins they've got on this class of vehicle.

     It's a run-out technology and also a very competitive market. I'm on the margins of the market and I have approaches from dealers often trying to get me into a new truck. From the deals being offered $3K is well within the negotiating margin as some of the inducements (discount + inflated tradein + extras) I've been offered worked out at more than twice that.

     Also electric / hybrid utes are probably just around the corner and this will / could have then into NZ very quickly. Land Rover have been very quiet on powertrains for their Defender replacement so wouldn't be surprised if that does't launch with an electric option, or even standard with ICE option.

     Electric should be ideal for tradies, they don't do big mileages (if they are doing 300 km/day they're not doing any chargeable work), just to and from the job via suppliers, and need strong torque to tow, so should fit the electric profile perfectly. Then the vehicle is parked at the job all day that usually has a power supply. But maybe not up to towing the boat up norf once a year…
     • lprent 6.2.1

       15 July 2019 at 8:37 am

       Yeah, the power trains for the larger ute/van/suv are pretty well there overseas. Not much boutique has been arriving here because the price signals from the preferential tax treatments mean that big arse utes means that they can (and do) have high profit margins.

       Big EV’s are going to have the issue of EV premium as they arrive. But I guess that a transfer subsidy will help their introduction as well.

       And that is a market where the general preference is to buy new and expense it in depreciation.
     • woodart 6.2.2

       15 July 2019 at 1:32 pm

       good sensible reply, unlike waynes alarmist bullshit. as you quite correctly point out, diesel ute retailers are offering way bigger rebates now, to make sales.
       • Graeme 6.2.2.1

         15 July 2019 at 6:31 pm

         My take on it is that the makers, and dealers want rid of them, fast, and are doing what it takes.

         I flirted briefly with them and got so put off by the 'do whatever it takes' sales pitches I stepped back.
   • lprent 6.3

     15 July 2019 at 8:31 am

     Of course if it reduces transport emissions – that doesn't matter eh?

     Incidentally the high growth market in the inner suburbs around here (Grey Lynn)for transport are e-bikes, e-scooters, and public transport. Why pay Wilson’s parking if you don’t have to?

     I’m about to hop on my ebike and head to work 3.3km away. It will take me about half the time it’d take me by car.

     The people who I see in the carpark with EVs and hybrids are mostly those from the outer suburbs. Mostly from people with 20-40km daily transport needs. This pretty much defines about 80% of all car use. So policy on that at reducing our emissions and fuel costs needs to start there.

     Of course if people need a vehicle for their business including farms, then they will buy the most appropriate vehicle to get a return. They should be able to bear the cost.

     To complain about prices signals in a free market like that is to be a commie. Are you are commie?
     • dv 6.3.1

       15 July 2019 at 8:50 am

       AND the 3k is a one off.

       How long will the plumber farmer etc holt the Ute.

       Say 5 years, so the annualised cost is $600!!! Abt 10$ per week!!!!

       Geez what the hell is the fuss about.
       • Wayne 6.3.1.1

         15 July 2019 at 9:08 am

         DV

         Most businesses don't thank govt for loading more costs on them, especially if they have no choice.

         However, Graeme might be right. Hybrid and EV utes might soon be on the market. I reckon a lot of tradies would do 100 km per day, maybe more. To and from the work site, plus a delivery/pickup during the day. In rural areas, maybe 150 to 200 is not uncommon, even if not daily.

         There are a huge number of 250 to 300 km trips in NZ. I have been told that Tesla X drivers from North Shore to Whitianga are experience range anxiety. Basically too many hills drastically reduces the advertised range. Though fast chargers in Thames, Coromandel and Tairua would reduce that worry.
         • dv 6.3.1.1.1

           15 July 2019 at 9:10 am

           If 10$ pw is a serious cost, then what is going to happen when fuel costs double?
   • Psycho Milt 6.4

     15 July 2019 at 10:05 am

     Wayne: I know that to National, everything is always about the money, but this policy isn't about how high a standard of living voters get to enjoy, it's about climate change. If National were interested in paying anything more than lip service to AGW, their approach to a lot of things would be very different.
   • Dukeofurl 6.5

     15 July 2019 at 12:44 pm

     Its a myth that the 4×4 utes are all owned by tradies and farmers. At the gym I go to 2/3 of those sort of vehicles seem to just be urban run arounds . The Tradies generally have vans as they need to store their equipment – securely- and utes mostly dont have room, or need a secure storage added.

     Car companies can be expected to electrify these vehicles – firstly for their city buyers and then rural users.

     SUVs are of course are a joke as for 'need'
7. Wayne 7

   15 July 2019 at 9:45 am

   All the discussion is about tradies, who one way or another will be OK.

   No comment by anyone on the lower income larger families, who are the most adversely affected of any group. Maybe an increase in Working for Families would be the answer. But at present the proposal is likely to be an added cost for families who are already the most hard pressed. Presumably a Labour led government will do something to assist. The announcement should have had something to help these families.
   • lprent 7.1

     15 July 2019 at 9:57 am

     Perhaps the reason why no-one is talking about them relative to a subsidy and tax on new cars, is mostly because that group seldom buy new cars?

     Offhand I can’t think of anyone I have ever been aware of who is in a lower income larger family buying a new vehicle. They usually buy second hand ones.

     Perhaps you (or National or the MTA) should provide some statistics what your definition of a low income family is (probably $200k annual income based on past smears) and on how many families on less than say $80k family income this would affect?
     • woodart 7.1.1

       15 July 2019 at 1:37 pm

       I too would like wayne to tell us how many low income families buy new cars. perhaps his idea of low income is different to mine.
   • Psycho Milt 7.2

     15 July 2019 at 10:01 am

     No comment by anyone on the lower income larger families, who are the most adversely affected of any group.

     Adversely affected in what way? Lower-income large families buy used cars, and usually not straight off the boat because those ones are still fairly expensive. None of these charges apply to the cars they're in the market for, and the rebates on lower-emitting used imports will have an effect on prices all the way down.
8. Wayne 8

   15 July 2019 at 11:35 am

   Second hand imports will get taxed. Many of the larger models will be bought by lower income families. For Iprent’s benefit in respect of his snarky comment, being less than $80,000 to $90,000 household income (wages, WFF, etc).
   • Muttonbird 8.1

     15 July 2019 at 11:40 am

     I find this new concern for low income families somewhat hard to swallow. The National government prides itself of setting macro economic policy without a second thought for these people.

     Has retirement driven you a bit to the left?
     • Dukeofurl 8.1.1

       15 July 2019 at 12:51 pm

       Definition of low income households

       http://archive.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/snapshots-of-nz/nz-progress-indicators/home/social/population-with-low-incomes.aspx

       Its a bit more complicated but its definitely well below median household income as they measure ' disposable income after housing costs'

       Interesting as the data collection ends at 2015…. as we know Nationals budget cuts has caused all sorts of grief for Statistics NZ
   • Incognito 8.2

     15 July 2019 at 11:51 am

     Yes, the highest fees on second-hand imported vehicles will be $1,500; it is in the post.

     The proposed scheme will only affect imported cars and not cars that are already in the country, which accounts for about a quarter of all sales; this is also in the post and in the links.

     You appear to be feigning concern for lower-income families (only families?) but you have to work harder to make it a real concern.
     • woodart 8.2.1

       15 July 2019 at 1:40 pm

       coming soon to market, nat brand crocodile tears.for when you dont care ,but want to pretend.
   • Psycho Milt 8.3

     15 July 2019 at 12:10 pm

     Used imports will be 2015 models onwards. I've never seen a family I'd consider "lower income" in the market for one of those. And the lower-emission ones will get a rebate rather than a fee.
   • lprent 8.4

     15 July 2019 at 12:52 pm

     But the tax on second hand vehicles is low, and even lower if it is a low emission car like a hybrid (haven’t looked at that exactly) and I think a rebate or subsidy for an ev.

     But also people will be selling their used petrol and diesel vehicles internally to NZ for a very long time..

     The remark wasn’t snarky. It was a question. I have had National supporters here telling me that a family with a gross income of over 150k were lower income a decade ago. Usually while arguing over tax brackets.
     • Wayne 8.4.1

       15 July 2019 at 3:33 pm

       Iprent,

       The use of the words "past smears" was the giveaway.

       I am pretty sure that you can import Japanese cars that are older than 2015. In fact I would have thought most Japanese imports would be between 2012 and 2015. Larger families are not going to be buying hybrid imports. There are none in the second hand large car zone. Large hybrids are all new or near new.

       Hence the point about the emissions levy affecting lower income families. The levy will push up costs for the type of second hand import vehicle favoured by larger families. And if the imports are dearer, then so will the resale value. Though by the time the car gets to 10 or 12 years plus, that effect will be hard to measure.

       As I said, the impact could be cancelled out by lifting WFF in the 2020 budget.
       • Pat 8.4.1.1

         15 July 2019 at 6:38 pm

         https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=2168586066&rsqid=e8410e19c6404973915b70350e521f2f-006

         https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/toyota/auction-2223698272.htm?rsqid=e8410e19c6404973915b70350e521f2f-006

         https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/nissan/auction-2022557495.htm?rsqid=e8410e19c6404973915b70350e521f2f-006

         etc
         • Incognito 8.4.1.1.1

           15 July 2019 at 6:55 pm

           
         • Wayne 8.4.1.1.2

           15 July 2019 at 7:02 pm

           Well, we learn something new every day!
           • Pat 8.4.1.1.2.1

             15 July 2019 at 7:04 pm

             somewhat like your 180 re tradies from last week
9. Puckish Rogue 9

   15 July 2019 at 2:46 pm

   Don't worry, hes just keeping the chair warm…

   https://www.google.com/search?q=judith+collins&rls=com.microsoft:en-NZ:IE-Address&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4h-_w87XjAhVCQH0KHRSBBWkQ_AUIECgB&biw=1024&bih=677#imgrc=94K11AyiU_4cCM:&spf=1563158686974
   • Incognito 9.1

     15 July 2019 at 6:58 pm

     She can’t afford a car with seat warming?? Surely, she’s got power steering? Muscle mass decreases when we get older …
10. R.P Mcmurphy 10

    15 July 2019 at 8:00 pm

    they have started sticking their necks out on facebook. let them have it!!!!!!!

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