The empire strikes back

Written By: - Date published: 8:53 am, March 15th, 2022 - 146 comments
Categories: climate change, economy, labour, political parties, tax - Tags:

Yesterday Labour showed a perfect understanding of the levers of Government by introducing two changes that will not fail but be well received by everyone except those who refer to the Prime Minister as Cindy or Taxcinda.

The first was a temporary reduction to Fuel Excise Duty by 25c per liter, excluding GST.

This neatly skewers right wing complaints about Auckland’s petrol tax amongst other things.  It also shows that the Government is receptive and sympathetic for people finding it tough.

The second was a halving of public transport fares to again alleviate pressure on worker’s living conditions.  If they are really brave they will make this permanent.

The opposition response is predictable.  Anneke Smith at Radio New Zealand reported this unusual comment from Chris Luxon:

“It’s not just fuel that’s gone up and petrol prices that are going up; food’s up 13 percent and weekly rents are up $150 a week. People deserve a break.

“The best way we think to do that is adjusting the tax thresholds; returning the extra tax Labour’s grabbing from inflation back to people so they’ve got cash in their pockets.”

Luxon estimated this could save the average earner $870 a week, while the ACT Party has said it could deliver $187 per person through its ‘carbon tax refund’ policy.

If sourced I think this should be added to the ever increasing list of National’s fiscal mistakes.  This is also deeply dishonest response and ignores other previously taken decisions that will provide assistance.

There are already significant benefit increases scheduled for April 1, 2022.  Stuff reported on these changes in this way:

The changes will bring core benefit levels to the well-above the rates recommended by the Government’s Welfare Expert Advisory Group in 2019 by 2022, although many of other recommendations from that report remain untouched.

The changes are focused particularly on families with children, with the Government projecting that between 19,000 and 33,000 children will be removed out of poverty in mid-2022.

From April 1 2022, single-parents on sole-parent support will receive $36 more or $434 a week. Sole parents who receive the supported living payment – what used to be the sickness benefit – will receive $485 a week, up $36.

There are also changes to the minimum wage scheduled for the same day.  The change will result in an extra $48 a week for those on the minimum wage.

For the average motorist the change will save a lot more than the $2 a week or less promised for most kiwis from National’s proposed tax cuts.

The rhetoric is going to get pretty intense over this change.  It will certainly sort out the media outlets that engage in actual analysis from those who engage in parroting of slogans from each side.

146 comments on “The empire strikes back ”

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  1. Alan 1
    15 March 2022 at 9:00 am

    um, the Empire are the bad guys MS.

    • higherstandard 1.1
      15 March 2022 at 9:17 am

      That Mitchell And Webb Look – "Are We The Bad Guys"?

    • Belladonna 1.2
      15 March 2022 at 12:56 pm

      Agree. Unsure how to read this title in combination with the content….

      [Though my favourite Star Wars movie of all time]

      Begs the question of who in the Labour Team is Darth Vader or Emperor Palpatine (or Lando Calrissian for that matter)

  2. Westykev 2
    15 March 2022 at 9:01 am

    The Empire should have been proactive instead of reactive. No matter how hard people spin this. if it were not for the shock poll last week there would have been no movement from this Government on this issue.

    • Anne 2.1
      15 March 2022 at 9:41 am

      … if it were not for the shock poll last week there would have been no movement from this Government on this issue.

      So, what you're saying is: the government knew that Russia was going to invade Ukraine weeks/months ago and did nothing about it? And when they did take action it was because of one itsy-bitsy local poll released a couple of days ago and had nothing to do with the massive impact on world petrol prices and the equally massive local consequences?

      For starters, I think the discovery that lil old NZ knew in advance about the invasion would raise some very powerful eyebrows around the world. 😉

      • You_Fool 2.1.1
        15 March 2022 at 11:47 am

        The problem is optics in nature. First, there was a poll and then labour did something, although this in itself is not a bad thing. People expressed displeasure in numbers that mean something on something the government could and did do something about… people power at its best!

        The worst bit was the line spun in the media ad nauseam that Jacinda said there was no cost of living crisis, then after opposition and poll pressure changed her tune and now there is a crisis and the government needs to do something about it quickly.

        I also note that now the government has done something, the National party are quick to complain about them doing stuff. Before it was a do-nothing government, now it is addicted to spending. Whilst it is a large pinhead they are dancing on, they seem to be ignoring the fact that tax cuts are also government spending, and that is how they were selling them just last week

        • Incognito 2.1.1.1
          15 March 2022 at 12:17 pm

          Whilst it is a large pinhead they are dancing on, they seem to be ignoring the fact that tax cuts are also government spending, and that is how they were selling them just last week [my italics]

          Tax is government income, not spending. You’re pretending that my salary is my grocery bill when a cut in my salary means I can spend less, not more. You seem to have your pinhead upside-down.

          • Tricledrown 2.1.1.1.1
            15 March 2022 at 4:42 pm

            Your missing out a lot of cogs in the machinery of an economy.

            The chicago school .

            Money hoarding is caused by lower taxes for the wealthy.

            Housing Cost's the rich hoard houses while the poor live in cars and tents.

            Even Don Brash productivity commission proved that housing costs are the biggest factor in people getting ahead.

            Simon Bridges 4 investment properties.

            Christopher robbing luxon 7 investment properties.

            That means less people can afford to live in Auckland teacher,nurse,police shortages.

            The very well off get thousands in tax cuts.

            The peasants get crumbs a few pennies.

            The middle classes get a block of cheese. So by the time you get your block of cheese tax cut in 5 1/2 years it will be a slice of cheese tax cut if your lucky incognito.

            National only do tax cuts for the peasants 6 months out from elections so in April 2026 if National get in you will see a tax cut that will have eaten up by inflation.

          • felix 2.1.1.1.2
            15 March 2022 at 6:57 pm

            Tax is govt income. Tax cuts are govt spending. Which is what You_Fool said.

            • Incognito 2.1.1.1.2.1
              15 March 2022 at 7:59 pm

              Nope, cuts are less income, not more spending. I don't care what fools or Fools say.

              Tax cuts means more in the pockets of the Tax Payers, so that they can spend more, and less in the coffers of the Tax Collector aka government (strictly, IRD). If you fools meant that then you’d need to learn expressing and explaining yourself better and clearer rather than relying on twisted language with some mandatory mind-reading thrown in.

              • Poission …
                15 March 2022 at 8:11 pm

                Which in turn increases inflation,which forces the reserve banks to increase interest rates,which in turn causes banks to raise lending rates,which decreases the amount of money flowing in the economy,which reduces employment which increases welfare infinitum.

              • felix …
                15 March 2022 at 8:16 pm

                Nah, from the govt's perspective a tax cut is a spend and it has to be budgeted for.

              • felix …
                15 March 2022 at 8:28 pm

                Here you go incognito, operating surpluses for dummies:

                "

                From time to time there may be money left over. When this occurs, the government needs to weigh up carefully how it spends this money, just like any household would:

                • The government could reduce its revenue, just like one parent in a household could choose to move from full-time work to start working part time or stop working altogether.
                • Alternatively, the government might need to invest more in health or education, just like a family might decide to invest more in their kids' education.
                • The government also needs to be sure it doesn’t enter into long-term commitments on the basis of one off events. For example one of the parents in a household wouldn’t quit their job if they received a $5,000 bonus. They know this is a one off and it needs to be treated this way."

                Operating Surplus Explained | Beehive.govt.nz

                • Incognito …
                  15 March 2022 at 8:55 pm

                  By Golly! We have an operating surplus!? Who would have thought after more than 2 years of a pandemic ravaging the global economy? That explains everything, including the fuel tax cuts. \sarc

                  Thank you so much – I feel much less of a dummy now.

        • Chris 2.1.1.2
          15 March 2022 at 11:06 pm

          The pin Luxon can dance on is as thick as most NZers who will vote for him. That's democracy.

  3. Ad 3
    15 March 2022 at 9:07 am

    Important to note the scale and impact of all the government's $$ increases to New Zealanders from yesterday:

    – Half price public transport.

    Providing direct benefit to over 1,000,000 regular users

    – 1 April NZSuper increases $52 per fortnight for a single person

    – 1 April NZSuper increases $80 per fortnight for a couple

    That assists 800,000 Kiwis

    – 1 April Working for Families increases $20 per week

    That assists a further 365,000 families with children

    – 1 April Minimum Wage lifts to $21.20

    That assists a further 300,000 people

    – 1 April main benefits go up by $15 per week after tax

    Easily 2.5 million New Zealanders getting greater government funding in 16 days time.

    – 1 May Winter Energy Payment $55 a week to 1.8 million New Zealanders

    • weka 3.1
      15 March 2022 at 9:18 am

      – 1 April main benefits go up by $15 per week after tax

      Easily 2.5 million New Zealanders getting greater government funding in 16 days time.

      Repeating, every time, it's $15 on the government's books, for many beneficiaries it is NOT $15 in their bank account each week. This is because most beneficiaries also get supplementary benefits and the calculation for these is affected by any income.

      The people in long term poverty getting TAS are unlikely to get the full $15. In the past some people have gotten $1.

      There is so much that the government just isn't doing on welfare, Sepuloni is a disgrace and should be replaced.

      – 1 May Winter Energy Payment $55 a week to 1.8 million New Zealanders

      Afaik the rate is $32 for families and $20 for single people.

      • Tiger Mountain 3.1.1
        15 March 2022 at 9:29 am

        Minister Sepuloni is one who appears to have been utterly captured by the fifth columnists in her Dept. MSD branches and case managers are still running amok in the North making people’s lives more miserable than they need to be. My brother in law needed urgent dental care they just would not fund. It was urgent because it involved abcesses in an older person with heart issues.

        We raised the money, and that is how WINZ/MSD like it–empty your bank accounts totally, sell stuff and hit up relatives before approaching us.

        • weka 3.1.1.1
          15 March 2022 at 9:35 am

          I think many lefties don't understand just how bad that still is. It's not just pay a sub liveable rate, it's the ways in which WINZ claw back every fucking cent they can, not just from beneficiaries but as you say from families and the community.

          There are many low hanging fruit things that Labour could have sorted in four years, and they haven't. This speaks volumes to priorities, of Labour and of the left in NZ that say they want to reduce poverty but won't make it happen.

          • Tiger Mountain 3.1.1.1.1
            15 March 2022 at 9:48 am

            I am class left in outlook and action and have never let Social Welfare, WINZ, MSD off the hook. Was at the Auckland People’s Centre in 90s during the “burn shipley burn” days and my partner has long been a beneficiary advocate.

          • Incognito 3.1.1.1.2
            15 March 2022 at 10:06 am

            I think many (!) people, regardless of their political persuasion, have little idea how tough it is for some of the fellow humans who might live only a few blocks away. I’d like to stress that progress can come from all directions, not just from the Left. In the end, it is people who make [the] decisions, and these people are good people even though they may be misguided and even though their actions can have negative consequences for [some] others. This is what I believe about others and this what I try to live by, even though I have to remind myself or be reminded …

            • weka 3.1.1.1.2.1
              15 March 2022 at 10:32 am

              I think many (!) people, regardless of their political persuasion, have little idea how tough it is for some of the fellow humans who might live only a few blocks away.

              That is also true. I'm pointing to something else, politicised lefties who still run this line about benefit increases despite having it explained to them many times. This is a willful thing imo, there's no excuse.

              • Incognito …
                15 March 2022 at 1:08 pm

                I’m not sure what you want different from those “politicised lefties” and “this line about benefit increases”. A better understanding and acknowledgement of how complex the social welfare system is and that increases in base rates don’t necessarily lead to the same increase for all beneficiaries across the board? That for many those increases are just incremental tiny drops in an ocean? Genuine question, because I’ve seen this so many times now here on TS and the way I see it, it often leads to unnecessary and futile ‘disagreements’ between lefties whom I respect very highly.

          • Craig H 3.1.1.1.3
            16 March 2022 at 10:28 am

            The attempting to deny every last cent possibly is one of my longstanding bugbears – beneficiaries get stuff all anyway and it always struck me as petty.

            Every government department involved in handing out money is tight because they view it as a requirement generally and specifically of the Public Finance Act not to spend money that isn't permitted by Parliament either directly or via delegated authority from Parliament e.g. ministerial order, cabinet decision etc. MSD gets a lot of leeway in how they interpret things, so they need better direction from their minister, but that's also the separation of operations and governance to some extent in that the Minister gives direction to the CE, who then finds it hard to see the front line from behind 7-8 layers of management.

        • Belladonna 3.1.1.2
          15 March 2022 at 12:10 pm

          Agree that Sepuloni has been an absolute disappointment as the minister for MSD.

          Agree with Weka that there are many, many easy and relatively inexpensive changes which could have been made. (And no, Covid is not an excuse for this)

          CPAG has already done the work

          https://www.cpag.org.nz/campaigns/welfare-fit-for-families-campaign/recommendations/

          And, not much (if anything) seems to have resulted – even from a government which claims to prioritize getting children out of poverty

          https://www.cpag.org.nz/news/govt-yet-to-fully-implement-a-single-key/

          Quite frankly, it appears that she has little actual interest in her portfolio area – and certainly has little influence over the Labour caucus in allocating funds.

          Most often, MSD is an example of government bureaucracy at its worst. Finding a reason not to help is much, much more important than actually helping people.

          • Tiger Mountain 3.1.1.2.1
            15 March 2022 at 1:50 pm

            At one stage WINZ/MSD employees could be personally rewarded for not providing the assistance vulnerable people sought, or advising them of their full entitlements. They are experts, like ACC, at losing previously supplied documents and providing judgemental physcological pressure.

            It is a rotten organisation beyond reform which really needs to be wound up. All debts should be written off, particularly those relating to emergency housing in motels.

          • Tricledrown 3.1.1.2.2
            15 March 2022 at 4:49 pm

            Covid came along remember govt debt doubled that needs to be factored in

            The govt has to be careful with money because the media and opposition will pounce on any shift of wealth from the very well off to the poor.

            • Belladonna 3.1.1.2.2.1
              15 March 2022 at 6:51 pm

              That is always going to be the case.
              At what point do the Government use their historically unprecedented absolute majority to actually implement these social provisions?

              Or is hand-wringing enough….

              And, actually, Covid is no excuse in this area. Much of the 'low-hanging-fruit' that Weka was referring to, simply requires a policy change at MSD, not legislation.

          • mickysavage 3.1.1.2.3
            15 March 2022 at 9:58 pm

            Tough crowd …

            Sepuloni saw through the significant benefit increases last year. Of the current Labour MPs a few of them have my disdain. She has my respect.

      • Ad 3.1.2
        15 March 2022 at 9:40 am

        So you're saying beneficiaries also get other benefits. Fair enough.

        Everything else is published as a set of tables here:

        Benefit rates at 1 April 2022 – Work and Income

        Cheers for the correction on the Winter Energy Payment

        • weka 3.1.2.1
          15 March 2022 at 9:51 am

          no, I'm not saying that, because anyone wanting to express a political opinion on welfare should already know that the only way most long term beneficiaries can survive is the supplementary benefits.

          When Labour says they're increasing core benefits by $15/wk, it's an abstract. In reality, most people getting full benefit entitlements will have that $15 parsed through various calculations in order to determine what they get in their bank account.

          Full list of extra assistance https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/income-support/extra-help/index.html

          Accommodation Supplement calculation, start here and work your way through https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/income-support/extra-help/accommodation-supplement/index.html

          Temporary Additional Support calculation, start here and work your way through https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/map/income-support/extra-help/temporary-additional-support/index.html

          It's complex, and that's not even getting to the calculations involved for people with kids or earning part time wages (secondary tax, the rebate that can tax earnings at 100%)

          My guess is that Labour don't actually know what the real world increase is, although I know last time benefits increased people like AAAP and Ricardo Menendez tried to get figures from WINZ.

        • Tricledrown 3.1.2.2
          15 March 2022 at 5:08 pm

          Yet I know many relatives that know how to squeeze every last drop out of winz.

          And others who are more deserving get the run around.

          When women are getting abused an beaten by their partners get much better access to emergency benefits and the abused women clause.

          Particularly Gang members are playing this system.

          I know my niece is on a full benefit plus every extra you can her partner takes home a minimum of $1400 a week he blows that on pokies ,boose and drugs and hits her up for more.

          I know many in this situation.

          That's why Winz and oranga tamariki should have in home welfare officers I know it's invasive but the damage these arrangements are causing is irreparable.

          The kids in these relationships are all hugely disadvantaged.

          Not fed properly no food in the fridge or cupboards,not clothed properly no visits to doctors the children are covered in knits skin sores,runny noses. Filthy clothes. no reasonable discipline just yelling screaming and bashing.

          In home education doesn't exist.

          Welfare and Oranga tamariki need turned upside down.

          The mistakes of the past are preventing oranga tamriki from making any progress.

  4. Barfly 4
    15 March 2022 at 9:17 am

    " Sole parents who receive the supported living payment – what used to be the sickness benefit – will receive $485 a week, up $36."

    Supported Living Payment replaced the Invalid's Benefit (am a recipient)

  5. Stuart Munro 5
    15 March 2022 at 9:20 am

    There remains of course, much to be done.

    But traditional Left supporters can at least say 'the government is helping', which they could not during Clark's administration.

    It answers the chief critique of a number of dubious media voices – but at the same time some DP operator of Whaleoilian proportions has been whining about the PM's attempts to have Ryan Bridges sacked. These pieces of destabilizing propaganda are hostile to the integrity of our state and the perpetrators need to be shut down with prejudice.

  6. tsmithfield 6
    15 March 2022 at 9:26 am

    I say congrats to the government for doing something that must feel very counter-intuitive for them.

    Tax cuts are normally the domain of the right. But in this case, it was the right thing to do. Not only does it help people make ends meet. But it also takes some pressure off inflation as fuel prices definitely feed into that.

    So, credit where credit is due.

  7. weka 7
    15 March 2022 at 9:27 am

    The changes will bring core benefit levels to the well-above the rates recommended by the Government’s Welfare Expert Advisory Group in 2019 by 2022, although many of other recommendations from that report remain untouched.

    The changes are focused particularly on families with children, with the Government projecting that between 19,000 and 33,000 children will be removed out of poverty in mid-2022.

    From April 1 2022, single-parents on sole-parent support will receive $36 more or $434 a week. Sole parents who receive the supported living payment – what used to be the sickness benefit – will receive $485 a week, up $36.

    This is good PR for Labour, and it makes sense if you think about the government's books. It's a disingenous piece of bullshit from the left though. Sorry micky, but I just explained this for the zillionth time (comment to Ad), many beneficiaries don't get that amount in hand, and many of those most in hardship get the least.

    Imagine if Labour made a big public announcement and said "we're increasing the minimum wage by $2 but the reality was that many workers got 2c increase instead. That we treat beneciaries this way is not surprising I guess, but it's bullshit coming from the left who should know better.

    And, think about a single person with chronic mental health issues living in substandard housing in Dunedin and what they can and can't afford with the extra few dollars they get. Nothing tells me more about Labour values than the fact that after four years they still have no plan for disabled people who are living in poverty.

    • The Chairman 7.1
      15 March 2022 at 10:09 am

      It's a disingenuous piece of bullshit from the left though.

      Indeed. Utter spin.

      Clearly, another drop for Labour in the polls seems to be required. Perhaps then, we may get something of substance.

      In 2019, the welfare expert advisory group recommended benefit levels be increased by up to 47 percent immediately.

      The increase coming in April 2022 doesn't address the current surge in inflation.

      Thanks for nothing, Labour.

      • weka 7.1.1
        15 March 2022 at 10:11 am

        You're just as bad, using this situation to bash Labour, again.

        • The Chairman 7.1.1.1
          15 March 2022 at 10:22 am

          Piss off. Labour created this piss poor situation. Therefore, fully deserve a public bashing. How dare you attempt to undermine it.

        • Foreign waka 7.1.1.2
          15 March 2022 at 6:29 pm

          Groceries up 7%, Petrol up 30%, Rents up 7%, Rates up 8%, Electricity up 15.4% and more increases to come. All that attracts GST and if you calculate how much this is in real $ the Government is raking in a lot of dosh. Why? Because the hole in the budget that was created supporting those corporate record profits in the tune of billions has to be paid back. Ah yes the banks. Record Profits in the Corona shut down. We need to support this too. And since all the profits look so good on a chart, we can't have a dive of the needle can we. So up with the prices to make sure the projection works and blame it on Covid. That will work.🙄

          Meanwhile the average income increased by 2.6% Someone is winning and it ain't the average punter. But it sure looks like a crisis to me, like a repeat from the 1920 when you needed a 20L bag of money to buy a loaf of bread.

          And the greens are saying that the government sends wrong signals with that meager 25 cents cut. Are they for real? Perhaps all those who live with some 120 – 240 K pa should try a benefit income. But its let them eat cake for them.

          • weka 7.1.1.2.1
            15 March 2022 at 7:44 pm

            And the greens are saying that the government sends wrong signals with that meager 25 cents cut. Are they for real? Perhaps all those who live with some 120 – 240 K pa should try a benefit income. But its let them eat cake for them.

            Don't know where you go that from. Here's what the Greens actually said,

            In a statement, co-leader James Shaw said while he was thrilled with the plan to halve public transport fares, the petrol tax cuts are the wrong approach to take. “Providing direct payments to people through the welfare system or via a tax credit would have given people the support they need to pay the bills, whether it’s putting petrol in the car or feeding their whānau,” said co-leader James Shaw.

            “Urgent action is clearly needed to address the worsening inequality crisis in Aotearoa New Zealand.”

            https://thespinoff.co.nz/live-updates/15-03-2022/national-act-and-greens-all-say-petrol-excise-cuts-not-good-enough

            I'm really sick of people projecting their own shit onto GP policy instead of telling the truth about it. It undermines any chance we have of the left making political gains.

      • Tricledrown 7.1.2
        15 March 2022 at 10:29 am

        Most people are doing it tough right now not just beneficiary's

        Price increases are going to continue for some time.

        This will cause a recessesion like everyone we have cut any luxuries like meat overpriced veges and fruit.

        We have stopped driving cars etc.

        This is a crisis that started with isis, covid,putin it doesn't look good except for dairy farmers.

  8. weka 8
    15 March 2022 at 9:32 am

    the fuel subsidy/PT fees is a good move, pragmatic politics and a nod towards climate. I hope that Labour follow this up with some serious climate action in the next 6 months. Yes, keep the half price fares in place, and develop the kind of overarching response to climate and oil prices that we saw with covid only with a more long term view (and a much more fair distribution of burden and gain)

    • The Chairman 8.1
      15 March 2022 at 11:04 am

      I hope that Labour follow this up with some serious climate action in the next 6 months.

      I worry how much more that serious climate action will cost us in the pocket?

      And with inflation surging, I'm guessing the public pushback for more added costs (thus work on serious climate action) will be immense.

      • weka 8.1.1
        15 March 2022 at 11:14 am

        not nearly as much cost as if ignore climate change.

        • The Chairman 8.1.1.1
          15 March 2022 at 12:06 pm

          Not nearly as much cost as if ignore climate change.

          Nobody was talking about ignoring it. The concern is who is going to be left carrying the cost burden?

          It tends to be those on the bottom that have no way to pass that burden on. Seeing as you are so keen to see serious climate action from this Government, what protections do you see this Government putting in place to ensure that is not the case? Anything?

          If nothing is your answer, perhaps you need to rethink what you wish for if you don't want to see the poor being further hammered.

          • weka 8.1.1.1.1
            15 March 2022 at 12:13 pm

            fuck off. I know what Just Transition is. You obviously don't, so maybe go do your homework before you start lecturing me.

            • The Chairman 8.1.1.1.1.1
              15 March 2022 at 1:08 pm

              Lecturing you? I wasn't lecturing you. Merely giving you something to ponder.

              As for just transition, are you really expecting me to believe Labour will set in place a just transition?

              And how do you see them doing that?

              They are doing little for the poor now and people are suffering. So pray tell where you get the confidence they will do better re a so-called just transition?

              • Foreign waka …
                15 March 2022 at 6:34 pm

                Don't worry, the poor or those close to be will soon be the majority. Once the banks increase interest rates the bubble bursts. And when the choice is between food or green dreams of everybody having an electric car for 4 -5 years income is in focus, give me a guess…. Not sure whether there is any party that would be fit to lead to be honest.

      • James Simpson 8.1.2
        15 March 2022 at 11:24 am

        I unfortunately agree with you The Chairman.

        This government declared a Climate Crisis, then yesterday cut the cost of fossil fuels. It is now cheaper to burn fossil fuels for you and me, and is therefore more likely to happen.

        This is what happens when you allow the opposition to dictate the narrative.

        • Stuart Munro 8.1.2.1
          15 March 2022 at 4:09 pm

          This government declared a Climate Crisis, then yesterday cut the cost of fossil fuels.

          It's ok – a certain Mr Putin has promised a nuclear winter to cool things down.

  9. roblogic 9
    15 March 2022 at 9:40 am

    Good stuff from Labour. I hope this is just the beginning of a wide ranging programme of reforms to improve the lives of the working class. As well as getting the big picture stuff like Housing & Urban Deveopment, 3 Waters, Health, and economic management, voters need to understand how Labour is working to directly help them on a personal level.

    We cannot continue down this road of food banks, skyrocketing rents, homelessness, and underfunded hospitals and claim to have a left wing government.

    Hoping for some laws with teeth very soon to control the unmitigated greed of landlords, supermarkets and other sectors that have an extractive mindset with no sense of responsibility to give something back.

  10. Tiger Mountain 10
    15 March 2022 at 9:41 am

    Good to see the Govt. shift from the Caucus neo liberal TINA position on something at least, in terms of petrol tax and half price public transport. The benefit headline looks good but weka is correct in the varied real world implementation for beneficiaries. Labour could have increased benefit levels in one hit after WEAG with no deductions and caveats on rent etc.

    The future has to be EVs, sales even of earlier models are through the roof according to dealers, electric cycles and scooter sales went from 23,000 to 75,000 in a year according to stuff.

    Public transport should be fare free nationwide, but it is quite likely it will be won city by city and town by town, like Nuke Free NZ! If the half price trial is successful the Govt. should at least keep it at that level and hopefully move to free.

    If NZ Labour want to get re-elected in the mid 2020s they still need to recant on Rogernomics and issue a grovelling apology to the working class of this country.
    Of course the filthy Natzos who love to point out problems, will never, like Trump, do one thing to practically improve the lot of those they pretend to care about.

    Easy re-election plan for Labour Green
    –Free Wifi for low income people nationwide (or just universal)
    to bridge digital divide that COVID exposed
    –State House & Apartment mega build
    –Rent freeze and rent control
    –Basic Income trial of several hundred per week to all citizens via IRD
    –Fare Free Public Transport

  11. dv 11
    15 March 2022 at 9:46 am

    870$ a week??

    I thought it was 870$ per year
    Did Micky misquote or Luxon misspeak?

    "Luxon estimated this could save the average earner $870 a week

  12. roblogic 12
    15 March 2022 at 9:51 am

    Kudos to the guy in the photo with the banana and bell and phone charger. Bring random crap to work day?

    • Anne 12.1
      15 March 2022 at 10:49 am

      Michael Woods is deputy leader of the House. Guess it is his job to bring the Caucus to order when it becomes necessary. 😉

      His phone must need a recharge and the banana to stave off rumbly tummy.

      NB. Only one mask in photo. Suspect its a fairly old photo.

  13. The Chairman 13
    15 March 2022 at 9:55 am

    So much for the Government's expectation.

    Filled the car this morning, however there was no change in the price at the pump.

    • Incognito 13.1
      15 March 2022 at 10:17 am

      You went to the wrong petrol station, again, and try put blame on the Government for your own mistake, again – you sound like neo-liberal victim.

      Mobil said it would not wait until midnight, instead reducing prices across all petrol grades by the same amount straight away.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/soaring-petrol-prices-cost-of-living-crisis-jacinda-arderns-govt-slashes-fuel-taxes-from-midnight-half-price-public-transport/K6UFHTBFO55VHOQEDBB3WGDTJE/

      • The Chairman 13.1.1
        15 March 2022 at 10:38 am

        You went to the wrong petrol station

        No I didn't. The Government's expectation failed us once again.

        I'm aware of what Mobil said. However, the Government's expectation was they would all drop their prices by midnight. I filled up at 9am this morning. Meaning the gas station reaped the saving it failed to pass on.

        Has anybody in the Government checked to see how many other stations failed to followed through?

        And seeing as it was only an expectation, it seems there is little the Government can do about gas stations profiting from the savings.

        This will come back to bite if it is widespread.

        • roblogic 13.1.1.1
          15 March 2022 at 10:45 am

          You're blaming the Labour government for the long established sociopathic behaviour of oil companies?

          • The Chairman 13.1.1.1.1
            15 March 2022 at 10:52 am

            In this instance, I'm blaming the Labour government for only seeking an expectation.

            And while we are at it. The cut should have been far more and for far longer as prices at the pump are expected to further increase going forward.

            Got it?

            Those that didn't pass on the full saving should not be allowed to claim the tax break.

            • roblogic 13.1.1.1.1.1
              15 March 2022 at 11:10 am

              I blame John Key for increasing GST

              • The Chairman …
                15 March 2022 at 11:28 am

                I blame John Key for increasing GST

                Yet, you don't blame Labour for not removing it?

                • Incognito …
                  15 March 2022 at 11:35 am

                  Removal of GST was mentioned in the PM’s press conference and the reason why it wasn’t the right choice right now.

                  Stop your trolling!

                  • Nic the NZer …
                    15 March 2022 at 11:44 am

                    Your making existential demands of posters now?

                  • The Chairman …
                    15 March 2022 at 12:19 pm

                    I'm not trolling. I'm expressing my feelings on the current situation. Just because you don't want to hear it doesn't give you the right to accuse me of trolling. Next you will want to ban me as Labour seem to love to silence or tar opposing voices.

                    You have already been attempting to tar me (ie false/fake concerns) and to that I say, fuck you.

                    The thing with that is, while you might silence me on here, the wider sentiment will still be out there. Ignore or deny it at Labour's own peril

                  • Foreign waka …
                    15 March 2022 at 6:40 pm

                    Yes, we have to pay all the billions back that obviously are not claimed back despite mega mego profits by those poor corporates…Oh well, lets get the cheese then.

            • Incognito 13.1.1.1.1.2
              15 March 2022 at 11:21 am

              Minister of Energy and Resources Megan Woods is writing to fuel companies today, setting out an expectation that the full amount of tax reduction from the Government will be passed on to consumers at the pump.

              https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-cuts-25c-litre-fuel-excise-cost-living-relief-package

              Minister Woods also talked about this in the PM’s press conference yesterday @12:00 mark [you’re welcome]

              The cut in fuel tax is for an initial 3 months as per the PM’s press conference and as mentioned by Grant Robertson @ 5:53 mark [you’re welcome].

              https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/government-to-slash-25-cents-per-litre-off-fuel-tax-and-halve-public-transport-costs-for-three-months.html

              You missed the halving of PT fees.

              Your concerns come across to me as false & fake and as pretences to have another go at this Government, which is your signature here on TS.

              • The Chairman …
                15 March 2022 at 11:38 am

                Minister of Energy and Resources Megan Woods is writing to fuel companies today, setting out an expectation that the full amount of tax reduction from the Government will be passed on to consumers at the pump.

                Thanks for proving my point re it only being an expectation.

                You missed the halving of PT fees.

                I'm aware of that. However, PT is crap in my location, thus means little for the people in my region.

                I don't care if you think my concerns come across as false & fake because I know they are genuine. The concern Labour should have is how many others agree with me.

                I hope they get hammered in the next poll as it seems it's the only way to draw their attention to people's concerns. And then perhaps we may get something of substance out of them.

                • roblogic …
                  15 March 2022 at 11:52 am

                  If you expect Labour to emulate the insane and selfish ideas of the Nats you might be waiting a while.

                  • Incognito …
                    15 March 2022 at 11:55 am

                    Nope, he’s waiting for Labour to be ousted so that the Nats can emulate the insane and selfish ideas and do much worse. In fact, he’s not just waiting …

                • Incognito …
                  15 March 2022 at 11:53 am

                  Thanks for proving my point re it only being an expectation.

                  An expectation of Government on fuel companies. This was not your point.

                  However, PT is crap in my location, thus means little for the people in my region.

                  Yeah, same here, which means I’m dead against the fuel tax cut because I don’t benefit from it as much as I deserve, personally and directly. How dare the Government do something that only benefits some but not all? \sarc

                  I don't care if you think my concerns come across as false & fake because I know they are genuine. The concern Labour should have is how many others agree with me.

                  Yes, we know all too well that you smoke your own dope and that you know that so many others agree with you. You spend a lot of time on social media, don’t you? Do you like your own comments/tweets much?

                  I hope they [Labour] get hammered in the next poll …

                  Your honesty is refreshing and you sound more authentic this way.

                  • The Chairman …
                    15 March 2022 at 12:32 pm

                    An expectation of Government on fuel companies. This was not your point.

                    Of course it was my point. The expectation means little, as I told you. There was no change in price when I filled up today, despite their expectation there would be.

                  • The Chairman …
                    15 March 2022 at 12:46 pm

                    Yes, we know all too well that you smoke your own dope

                    Look, there is another attempted tar from you. You are showing everyone how you treat opposing voices.

                    No kindness here, just like Jacinda, tar, tar, tar.

                    • roblogic …
                      15 March 2022 at 1:22 pm

                      It's hard for RWNJs to come here and discover the universe doesn't revolve around themselves.

                    • Incognito …
                      15 March 2022 at 2:09 pm

                      Look, I know that not only do you believe your own fantasies, you also love them so much that you have to share them with us on this story-telling platform that you use so freely. I don’t mind pointing that out for you and everyone to see, which is kinda the point of commenting here on TS.

                      No kindness here, just like Jacinda, tar, tar, tar.

                      Oh dear, you have something on your shoulder. Is it a prop that gave the game away, again?

        • Incognito 13.1.1.2
          15 March 2022 at 11:03 am

          Well, it seem you may have had trouble finding the right petrol station.

          https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2022/03/cost-of-living-petrol-prices-remain-over-3-at-large-number-of-stations.html

          But, as usual, you’re barking up the wrong tree and blaming the Government, which did cut the tax overnight. Government cannot force commercial operators to pass on the full discount and if they don’t, it doesn’t end up in the government’s coffers.

          • The Chairman 13.1.1.2.1
            15 March 2022 at 11:21 am

            You are pointing to price variations. Which was already happening. I'm talking about the new cut being fully passed on to the consumer.

            Government cannot force commercial operators to pass on the full discount

            Why not? Can the Government not create a new law under urgency?

            And if not, then they should have used another method to ensure savings/money ended up in people's pocket.

            It doesn’t end up in the government’s coffers.

            Clearly, it ends up in the gas stations pocket. Defeating the whole reason for the cut in the first place.

            People will be pissed if they don't receive the full discount. Which will be reflected in the next poll that takes this situation into account.

            • Incognito 13.1.1.2.1.1
              15 March 2022 at 11:26 am

              Why not? Can the Government not create a new law under urgency?

              Partly covered in the PM’s press conference yesterday: it takes too much time. In addition, it would be a radical interference and intrusion by government into the ways businesses operate. You cannot be serious.

              People will be pissed if they don't receive the full discount.

              People will be pissed if they believe your anti-government attacks. Is your tent dry yet?

              • The Chairman …
                15 March 2022 at 12:58 pm

                it takes too much time.

                They could have done it in the last week (instead of spending their time denying it was a crisis) under urgency.

                A radical interference and intrusion by government into the ways businesses operate.

                Sometimes a crisis requires radical interference and intrusion. Labour had no problems stomping on our rights, creating segregation when the need required.

                • Incognito …
                  15 March 2022 at 1:26 pm

                  Obviously, the fuel tax cut was quicker & cleaner, overnight in fact. But you’re not arguing for a tax cut, you’re arguing for giving the Government the power to tell commercial operators and businesses what they should charge their clients and customers and how they must set their pricing. Even the Commerce Commission cannot do this. On top of that, you argue that such change can be done quickly, in fact “in the last week”. No wonder that you cannot be taken seriously.

                  Has the Government announced another “crisis”?

                  Yes, I know our rights are more important than our health and the health of others. Life sucks sometimes.

                  MIQ and self-isolation are temporary measures for your own health as well as that of others. It suits your anti-government rhetoric and narrative to label this “segregation”. I can see straight through you and you should pitch your tent again soon.

                  • The Chairman …
                    15 March 2022 at 3:23 pm

                    Obviously, the fuel tax cut was quicker & cleaner, overnight in fact.

                    As I pointed out, that wasn't the case on the ground.

                    I received no tax cut/discount when I purchased gas today. How widespread that is, I can't say. But if it is widespread, then Labour will have a problem.

                    But you’re not arguing for a tax cut, you’re arguing for giving the Government the power to tell commercial operators and businesses what they should charge their clients and customers and how they must set their pricing.

                    That's not exactly correct. I would like to have a tax cut on gas. However, I don't like being told taxes are going to be cut on fuel, yet only to find out they weren't for the end consumer.

                    Moreover, the Government did nothing to ensure they would.

                    There was only an expectation they would, which of course means little in reality.

                    I wasn't arguing for the Government to have the power to tell commercial operators and businesses what they should charge, I was stating they should have ensured (by law if they must) the end consumers received the tax break given to them. Do you see the difference?

                    You seem happy to ensure the Government doesn't stomp on the rights of the gas stations to pocket this discount in a time of crisis, which is totally wrong.

                    The cut was meant to be for the end consumer and the Government should have ensured this.

                    Thanks for displaying how Labour view things. Seems the rights of businesses is sacrilegious even if it results in them ripping off the end consumer in a time of crisis. Where as, the rights of citizens are ok to stomp on when required.

                    Additionally, if an expectation was all they could do, then they should have looked at other methods of delivery (eg additional benefit increases or income tax cuts, etc) to ensure end consumers got what they were offered.

                    How hard is it to wright a law stating this tax cut must be given to the end consumer in full, thus can not be taken by the company?

                    Or have it policed and fine those ripping off the consumer? Too hard you say? Or is it more a case of there being no will to go all the way to protect the people?

                    After what this Government allowed to happen to the last lot that pitched their tents, I doubt any will be attempting that again.

                    • Incognito …
                      15 March 2022 at 4:06 pm

                      As I pointed out, that wasn't the case on the ground.

                      It was quicker & cleaner for the Government, obviously. You blame the Government for the fuel companies not passing on the tax cut within 9 hours of the snap decision and announcement. I think your expectations were misguided unrealistic, to say the least, and blame Government for your muddled thinking. The Government has already warned that petrol/oil prices are very likely to go up still, in case you want to create more false expectations.

                      That's not exactly correct.

                      Not exactly?? You’re deflecting, again – you said that you wanted Government to force companies to pass on the tax cut to their customers in full with immediate effect. You should have shopped around before you filled up. Dumb decision that you should own because it is on you.

                      Moreover, the Government did nothing to ensure they would.

                      Not true. Minister Woods is dealing with it, as I’ve already pointed out to you.

                      Do you see the difference?

                      The difference is semantics. You want Government to have the say in setting prices & charges for the consumer.

                      You seem happy to ensure the Government doesn't stomp …

                      Wrong assumption! I don’t flip my lid when I’ve made a mistake that cost me a few dollars at the pump.

                      The cut was meant to be for the end consumer and the Government should have ensured this.

                      Government is doing its bit, but they’re not omnipotent, no matter how much you wish them to be in this instance.

                      Thanks for displaying how Labour view things.

                      Did I really? Or did I tell you where you went wrong, repeatedly and again?

                      Seems the rights of businesses is sacrilegious even if it results in them ripping off the end consumer in a time of crisis. Where as, the rights of citizens are ok to stomp on when required.

                      Oh dear, such hyperbole. The Fuel Tax went into government’s coffers and now it doesn’t. I reckon some will be passed on very soon and some of it will be absorbed by the fuel companies to offset rising oil prices, past, present, and future ones. That’s the nature of business. Citizens have the right to be safe, healthy, and protected by government and this is a balancing act. Your emotive language reflects your utter disregard for such considerations.

                      Additionally, if an expectation was all they could do, then they should have looked at other methods of delivery …

                      They have already but you chose to ignore these completely and Budget-2022 is just around the corner.

                      How hard is it to wright a law stating this tax cut must be given to the end consumer in full, thus can not be taken by the company?

                      My guess: extremely hard and politically impossible.

                      Or have it policed and fine those ripping off the consumer? Too hard you say?

                      Ah, more policing is the answer. Yup, I’m all for authoritarianism. \sarc

                      Or is it more a case of there being no will to go all the way to protect the people?

                      Government doesn’t like stomping on others, for some strange reason. Maybe it’s misplaced kindness …

                      After what this Government allowed to happen to the last lot that pitched their tents, I doubt any will be attempting that again.

                      I can tell that you’re not a happy camper.

            • Incognito 13.1.1.2.1.2
              15 March 2022 at 11:33 am

              You are pointing to price variations. Which was already happening. I'm talking about the new cut being fully passed on to the consumer.

              You didn’t read the link or choose to misrepresent it. Stop wasting our time here!

              • The Chairman …
                15 March 2022 at 11:52 am

                You didn’t read the link or choose to misrepresent it.

                The link you pointed me to was about price variations. Gas stations already had price variations so of course there will be a difference in the price from station to station. Where in your link did it state the cut wasn't being fully passed on? The station I went to had the same price it had yesterday. And yesterday there were variations to that price in the region

                But according to the Government's expectation, that should have been lowered today. Thus, if all the gas stations in my region passed on the full discount today, the price variations would still remain. Where in your link did it touch on this (re price variations being a result of the discount not being fully passed on)?

                • Incognito …
                  15 March 2022 at 12:06 pm

                  The price of petrol at a large number of stations remains above the $3 mark despite a 25c cut in gas taxes overnight. [my italics]

                  Right at the top of the link, in bold.

                  Maybe you’re exceptionally bad at picking up cues and reading the room, so I will just say it: you’re starting to annoy me immensely with your slippery twists & turns, which are a form of gaslighting. You won’t fool me, but you may fool others. I’m going to find my other hat soon, if you know what I mean?

                  • Barfly …
                    15 March 2022 at 12:20 pm

                    I do devil

                  • The Chairman …
                    15 March 2022 at 12:24 pm

                    The price of petrol at a large number of stations remains above the $3 mark despite a 25c cut in gas taxes overnight.

                    That comes back to the point I was making re price variations. Nothing about it being due to the full discount not being passed on

                    “I’m going to find my other hat soon”

                    And there it is. Threating to silence opposing voices. Fuck you.

                    • Incognito …
                      15 March 2022 at 2:50 pm

                      Nothing about it being due to the full discount not being passed on

                      You’re erecting a strawman, as usual, to score your silly point. The point to the article is not price variations per se but the fact that the discount had yet to trickle down through the system. And it was not “[n]othing}:

                      But despite the tax cut coming into effect overnight, petrol remained above the $3 mark across many Auckland petrol stations including BP Hillside ($3.26), Z Quay St ($3.25) and Caltex Penrose ($3.25), Gaspy pricing shows.

                      Of course, Minster Woods was going to write to the fuel companies today, i.e. today. Her letter is probably held up in snail mail.

                      And there it is. Threating to silence opposing voices. Fuck you.

                      Nah, was thinking of putting you in Pre-Moderation, so that Moderators can check your spin and prepare an appropriate response possibly even a Moderation note before we approve and release in the frontend. You’re not my type, I can tell – your foreplay sucks and not enough variation in position and strokes plus your language turns me off.

                  • The Chairman …
                    15 March 2022 at 4:00 pm

                    The point to the article is not price variations per se but the fact that the discount had yet to trickle down through the system.

                    No. the point being made was the 25c tax cut did little to the overall cost. For example:

                    The price of petrol at a large number of stations remains above the $3 mark despite a 25c cut in gas taxes overnight.

                    If the point was the discount had yet to trickle down through the system, then it highlights the cuts haven't been passed on. Despite the cuts taking effect at midnight. Suggesting gas stations are pocketing them.

                    Nah, was thinking of putting you in Pre-Moderation, so that Moderators can check your spin and prepare an appropriate response possibly even a Moderation note before we approve and release in the frontend.

                    Sounds like you like the China model, a few have been saying Labour are to close to them and want to take us to their level of open dialog.

                    But thanks for so openly exposing yourself, giving everyone a little more insight to how this current Labour lot (and their lackeys) think.

                    Your lot need to be shown the door. And no, I don't vote National. Never had.

                    At least National tell the poor straight out how they will screw you over, whereas Labour come with a big teeth smile and lots of spin pretending to be kind and caring. People are finally waking up to your lot.

                    [I’m not familiar with the “China model” and IDK what you mean by “their level of open dialog” [sic], but it sounds mighty fascinating, like all your other fidgets of imagination. Anyhow, TS ≠ Labour and China ≠ Labour.

                    TS is kindly giving you the freedom and privilege to spout your nonsense, day in day out, and post thousands of comments. None of these comments are edited or changed, none are deleted unless you’re serving a ban and comments are trashed automatically. Pre-Moderation is often used to guide wayward commenters such as yourself back onto the reserve and to avoid an outright ban. Before we ban we warn. You can tell us how this compares to the “China model” and “their level of open dialog”. I look forward to your mental gymnastics without overstepping.

                    IDK what you think you saw when you think my kimono opened a little, but it cannot have been a member of “this current Labour lot (and their lackeys)”. You’re having disturbing fantasies that have no base in reality. Your anti-government bias is showing clearly and this is having a bad effect on your commenting behaviour here. We moderate on behaviour.

                    Of course, if “this lot” has to be shown the door then National will come in through the other door. It doesn’t matter what you vote for; you have to be careful what you wish for. But you do more than just wishing, don’t you? You keep attacking and chipping away, comment after comment, and deny you’re doing it and pretend that you’re some sort of ‘Lefy’. I’d call that disingenuous debate and vexatious trolling.

                    If you really want to box me in and put one of your sticky target labels on it/me then you have to do much better with your evidence. Similarly, when you put words in my mouth I’d like to see quotes with links, not assumptions, speculations or extrapolations.

                    This is your warning – Incognito]

                    • Incognito …
                      15 March 2022 at 4:22 pm

                      Oil/petrol prices are still rising, as forewarned by Government also, and despite the fuel tax cut.

                      So, all this time you were moaning about the high cost of petrol (this morning at 9 am) and not about the discount not being passed on quickly enough. In any case, you blame Government – nothing new there.

                    • Incognito …
                      15 March 2022 at 4:56 pm

                      Mod note for you.

        • Jimmy 13.1.1.3
          15 March 2022 at 11:34 am

          I drive past 5 petrol stations on the way to work, BP, 2 x Z, Caltex and Mobil, and they had all reduced their prices.

          • The Chairman 13.1.1.3.1
            15 March 2022 at 2:19 pm

            I drive past 5 petrol stations on the way to work, BP, 2 x Z, Caltex and Mobil, and they had all reduced their prices.

            All five reduced their prices reflecting the full 25c discount?

            • McFlock 13.1.1.3.1.1
              15 March 2022 at 2:41 pm

              Maybe you should have started comparing fuel prices before you filled up at the wrong station this morning.

              Playing johnny-catch-up with who charges what and where is all well and good, but you really should learn to plan ahead.

              As for government expectations, if a minister expects something, anyone who fails to meet those expectations might find regulatory changes. An additional rebate on EVs might be useful in this case.

              • The Chairman …
                15 March 2022 at 4:18 pm

                Maybe you should have started comparing fuel prices

                I went to the cheapest in town.

                But yes, I shouldn't have taken Labour for their word tax cuts would take effect at midnight. Nor their statement all the gas stations were onboard with passing the cuts on.

                As for government expectations, if a minister expects something, anyone who fails to meet those expectations might find regulatory changes.

                Like the expectations they had with power companies?

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/127889980/electricity-users-on-lowusage-plans-told-their-daily-fixed-charges-are-doubling#:~:text=The%20move%20to%20phase%20out,day%20to%2069c%20from%20April.

                An additional rebate on EVs might be useful in this case.

                Out of touch much? The poor generally can't afford new cars. Even with rebates. Most are barely getting by week to week. Bet you demand for those green card food payments is going mental. Just about everyone at the checkout had one the last time I was there. And yes, that's in a poor region.

                [You’re now in Pre-Moderation until you provide satisfactory responses to moderation.

                But yes, I shouldn’t have taken Labour for their word tax cuts would take effect at midnight. Nor their statement all the gas stations were onboard with passing the cuts on.

                The tax cuts came into effect at midnight as per Government’s announcement. Show us that this is not correct with quote + link.

                When/where did Government state yesterday “all the gas stations were onboard with passing the cuts on”? Quote + link required.

                I’m following the N-Korean model of moderation – Incognito]

                • McFlock …
                  15 March 2022 at 4:26 pm

                  Cheapest in town, huh. Only one in town, maybe? That might explain your completely reliable observation.

                  As for EVs, sorry, I forgot you were more left than most and therefore didn't follow the supply and demand theory of price setting in a competitive marketplace.

                  If poor people are the only people buying petrol, it needs to be affordable for poor people otherwise the petrol won't get sold.

                  • Nic the NZer …
                    16 March 2022 at 6:36 pm

                    The Chairman is a totally straight up individual who practices what he preaches. You will not find him telling people to shop around for the best price because that doesn't work (e.g doesn't let you have a winge about it).

                • Incognito …
                  15 March 2022 at 5:10 pm

                  Mod note for you.

            • Jimmy 13.1.1.3.1.2
              15 March 2022 at 4:36 pm

              Yep pretty much within a cent or two.

    • roblogic 13.2
      15 March 2022 at 10:32 am

      Shoulda used the Gaspy app.

    • Tricledrown 13.3
      15 March 2022 at 5:37 pm

      Filled the car I hardly think so.

      You couldn't afford to fill your car what brand of car what size tank.

      Right Wing minions rarely have enough wealth to claim they are wealthy.

      More likely just obsessive fanboys who have nothing interesting going on their lives other than trying to disrupt and score meaningless points.

      If you were one of the wealthy elite you would have some poor person do your trolling.

      • Incognito 13.3.1
        15 March 2022 at 8:40 pm

        $146 this arvo for a standard no-frills car. I don't have anybody to do my trolling though devil

  14. barry 14
    15 March 2022 at 11:01 am

    Subsidy for petrol. I am not one of the usual suspects (I refer to the PM as Ardern), but I decry this move.

    They should have brought forward the winter energy payment. Give people the choice. People have to BUY & BURN PETROL to access this support.

    • Ad 14.1
      15 March 2022 at 11:41 am

      Winter hasn't started yet and isn't likely to until at least May. No need.

      Cyclists are less than 3% of travellers going to school. About 2.2% of people cycle to work in the 2018 census.

      Those who want to cycle can do so, and don't require the subsidy that car users do. Be happy for cyclists who need less state support.

      • weka 14.1.1
        15 March 2022 at 12:15 pm

        Winter hasn't started yet and isn't likely to until at least May. No need.

        Says the Aucklander. Meanwhile, down south, for people that need dry firewood, we needed to be buying it in a few months ago. I had the woodburner lit this morning, and it's not the first time. This is completely normal in colder parts of the country.

      • barryand if you 14.1.2
        15 March 2022 at 1:46 pm

        Use some imagination. The whole point is to get money to people who need it. Call it a "rainy day energy payment".

        It will be hard to unravel the petrol subsidy. The energy payment will just expire.

        • weka 14.1.2.1
          15 March 2022 at 2:54 pm

          Please fix your username on next comment. Yes you have to check your name and email address each time.

    • Belladonna 14.2
      15 March 2022 at 12:23 pm

      Well, if you're not 'buying and burning petrol' then you will have been completely unaffected by the price at the pump – so don't need any assistance in that area.

      Most people in that category will, however, be affected by the 50% cut in public transport. Which I devoutly hope will be passed on to consumers in its entirety by the PT operators (will check what AT are doing when my son comes home from school using PT)

      • barryand if you 14.2.1
        15 March 2022 at 1:44 pm

        …and if you are buying and burning petrol you are destroying the environment. Why would we subsidise it?

        Lots of prices have gone up lately, not just petrol. Why not a lettuce subsidy?

        People are finding life hard. The idea is to give money to people who need it, and LET THEM DECIDE HOW TO SPEND IT. The government is giving people money to sustain the fossil fuel industry.

        • Belladonna 14.2.1.1
          15 March 2022 at 6:45 pm

          OK. So it sounds like you're agreeing with the ACT position on this:

          https://www.act.org.nz/act_whacks_petrol_tax_the_smart_way

          • barry 14.2.1.1.1
            16 March 2022 at 5:02 pm

            Not exactly. I would target it at the more deprived. Which is why I suggested the winter energy payment mechanism.

            I will tap my employer for more money to cover my own extra costs, not the government.

            • Belladonna 14.2.1.1.1.1
              16 March 2022 at 6:08 pm

              So, zip for people who aren't on a benefit of some kind.

              • barry …
                16 March 2022 at 9:06 pm

                Of course. If you are employed then your employer should be paying you enough to live on.

                • Belladonna …
                  17 March 2022 at 1:32 pm

                  If Labour went to the polls on that message – 'here's help with cost of living increases (driven party by our policies and new taxes) for beneficiaries – but anyone employed is out of luck' – they'd be rocketing down to a record loss.

                  • barry …
                    17 March 2022 at 2:20 pm

                    So National are going to offer more subsidies for Employers? Who is going to pay for it?

  15. Poission 15
    15 March 2022 at 11:17 am

    On todays markets oil prices have decreased 5.12%,adding to a decrease in bbl price since the peak last tuesday of 25$ barrel for Brent crude.

    Ladies and gentlemen the speculators have left the room.

  17. Reality 17
    15 March 2022 at 2:19 pm

    General observation – commenters on this post sound like fractious kids at daycare needing their afternoon nap.

    Would be nice to see some appreciation for what the government is doing.

  18. adam 18
    15 March 2022 at 3:52 pm

    I'm glad the government has done something. Anything is better than nothing and hand wringing – which is what national are doing once again. They have to be the most ineffective opposition in my life time, and the worse of it they can't even lie straight – thanks for catching them out on there math again Mickey.

    Although I worry that is getting to the point of a goebbles trick from the nats' – going for the BIG LIE. Or maybe this thousand tiny cuts showing they bad at math, will expose they ran with the BIG LIE all along.

    Would I like to see more, yeah it's about bloody time. They got dropped in this mess by free market shitfuckery, and they need to protect us all from the greedy few, who can never have their greed fulfilled.

  19. Reality 19
    15 March 2022 at 4:39 pm

    Barryandifyou – it is very easy to not buy a lettuce. Easy to grow though. Frozen vegetables are a good substitute. However, many many people must use a car to get to work, particularly shift work, or to the doctor or a hospital visit, visit a sick relative, drop children at school/daycare etc etc. Buses may not be close by or are at unsuitable times. In the bigger cities circuitous routes can be very time consuming. And equally many cannot walk long distances or ride a bike. Cars are mostly necessities.

    • barry 19.1
      16 March 2022 at 5:07 pm

      "Cars are mostly necessities."

      Only because we have made them so. Plenty of people around the world manage without cars. But we insist on spreading our cities out so that people are trapped in their homes unless they can drag a tonne of metal and glass around.

      Subsidising petrol is the worst possible signal to send. At some stage we have to say enough, we actually care about the planet we are bequeathing to our children and grandchildren enough to change things.

  20. dv 20
    15 March 2022 at 4:43 pm

    Uber will enact very high surge pricing tomorrow . Beware the Rides of March

  21. SPC 21
    15 March 2022 at 7:47 pm

    While those on minimal income benefits have debt repayments deducted, it certainly deserves to be called an empire that should fall.

    Tertiary debt is only repaid once income reaches $390 a week (for a single person).

    If an adjustment is made for children then there would be no deductions for debt repayment unless the beneficiary was earning extra money from work.

    PS I would go further, and refinance the private sector debt (hire purchase/car/credit card etc) of sole parents going onto benefits to reduce child poverty.

    • Craig H 21.1
      16 March 2022 at 11:19 am

      Agree with this debt issue, even IRD will cancel debt for people in hardship, which includes most beneficiaries.