The tax debate – Dogwhistle time

Written By: - Date published: 8:07 am, March 7th, 2019 - 111 comments
Categories: capital gains, grant robertson, jacinda ardern, labour, making shit up, national, nick smith, nz first, racism, same old national, Simon Bridges, spin, tax, the praiseworthy and the pitiful, winston peters, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

National is a party with a plethora of hired “talent” researching and planning and scheming to return National to its natural position, that is ruler of us all.

It does not matter that they are hopelessly inept at the leadership stuff, that they are incapable of making any brave but necessary decisions, that the only lens they take to the decision making process is what will make their business and farming mates happier, but they have to lead.  There are far too many obscenely rich people who need to be even richer because that is according to them the natural order.

So the thought of even modest redistribution from the top 10% to the rest of us is an anathema to them.  And this is why they are throwing the kitchen sink at the capital gains tax proposal.

I think that Ad is right.  Labour is struggling with the PR because it thought that National would play fair and wait for the Government to announce its response before going on the attack.  This vacuum has proved too tempting.

So wave one of the attack was to suggest that Labour was going to gut KiwiSaver accounts even though the TWG package would mean that most people would be better off.  Wave two was the scare the farmers effort.  And now we are into the racist dogwhistle stage.

Yesterday in Parliament showed the depths that National is prepared to stoop to.  From Hansard:

Hon Simon Bridges: Does she agree with Grant Robertson, who is reported as saying “There was no recommendation in the Tax Working Group report excluding Māori from the capital gains tax”?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: If the member was willing to characterise the member’s statements correctly, then I would agree with Minister Robertson.

Hon Simon Bridges: What does she say about volume 1 of the Tax Working Group report, page 15, headed “Summary of Recommendations”, which makes quite clear there are recommendations around Māori being excluded from a capital gains tax—[Interruption]

Get that?  National was prepared to suggest that Maori would be exempted from a CGT.  What was this based on?

The TWG recommendations report proposes that there should be a broad capital gains tax but acknowledges that Maori freehold land poses problems, essentially because it is whanau land and the owners are essentially trustees.  And there are major hurdles in place before it could be alienated.

The report invited the Government to “consider that some types of transactions relating to collectively owned Māori assets merit specific treatment in light of their distinct context” and “recommends that the Government engages further with Māori to determine the most appropriate treatment of transactions relating to collectively owned Māori assets.”

This is not preferential treatment.  The bright line test allows transfer of trust property between trustees without the period being triggered.  You can bet that any CGT will allow the same.  

Transactions relating to Maori land are generally essentially the same.  It is tightly held land that is almost inevitably kept within whanau control.

If owners of Māori land want to sell their interest in the land, they must first offer it to members of the whānau and hapū associated with the land.  If there are no takers then they have to get Māori Land Court’s approval for the sale.

Ownership is often fragmented and complex.  To require owners to pay a CGT when there are whanau transactions would cause all sorts of difficulties. And to claim that allowing this sort of transaction is evidence that Maori are being exempted from the proposed CGT involves all sorts of falsehood and bullshittery.  Sorry about the language but this deserves it.

For a start it only applies to owners of Maori land.  This is a pretty small subset of Maoridom.  And the complications deserve special treatment.

But it got worse.  Nick Smith confirmed that the dogwhistle was being given a big, big blow:

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Again, I refer them back to the report, which encouraged the Government to consider whether particular circumstances such as disposing of Māori freehold land or where assets are—

Hon Dr Nick Smith: Are you going to exempt Māori?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —transferred within iwi, whether or not we should give specific consideration to an exemption—in the same way that, for instance, if you had land passed down after death—

Hon Dr Nick Smith: Are you going to exempt them?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: —whether there should be a 12 months’ exemption. These are exemptions they asked us to consider, and for very good reasons.

Winston Peters, bless him, understood the issues:

Rt Hon Winston Peters: If any owner, Māori or otherwise, was holding land in trusteeship for future generations, how could a capital gains tax possibly apply when they do not intend to benefit from any capital gains themselves?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, the member is making the point around intent of sale, and, again, I’d like to make the point that of course, as has been the case for a number of years and successive Governments, we have, for instance, a 17.5 percent tax rate that applies to Māori authorities. And now is the member stating that he disagrees with that provision as well?

But Bridges came back to give the dogwhistle one last big blow:

Hon Simon Bridges: Will her Government exclude Māori from any capital gains tax it imposes?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: As I have reiterated, the Tax Working Group has as a group, including a range of representatives, acknowledged that it warrants consideration. We have made no decisions, but unlike the other side of the House we can see when there are circumstances that are particular that do warrant consideration. It seems to me the National Party now has a strategy where they don’t support 17.5 percent tax rates for Māori authorities. We might be interested in sharing that with iwi leaders.

Grant Robertson summed the afternoon’s events up well:

And just in case you think that this was accidental Simon’s twitter team came up with these.

And in this tweet he left out the rather important qualifying words “collectively owned” as in “collectively owned Maori assets”.

There is going to be a whole month of this sort of nonsense before the Government releases its response.  I wonder how low National will go?

111 comments on “The tax debate – Dogwhistle time ”

  1. Incognito 1

    “Grant Robertson summed the afternoon’s events up well:” ………….. [something went astray there]

    Edit: you’re on to it, I see 🙂

  2. Formerly Ross 2

    According to Wayne Mapp it’s what we should have expected from National. Yeah I know, expecting good faith from the Tories was always going to be a stretch.

    • Wayne 2.1

      Why is it not fair that National determines its own political tactics? It is what all political parties do.
      As long as things are not actively misrepresented, then Labour has no complaint. A point well made by Claire Trevett in today’s paper.

      • mickysavage 2.1.1

        Wayne what do you think about the race baiting?

        Don’t you think this is actively misrepresenting things?

        There is comment that owners of Maori land have special complications and Bridges and Co are saying that the Government is going to treat Maori differently.

        How can you reconcile what they are saying with what is being proposed?

        • Kat 2.1.1.1

          Wayne would have a hard job reconciling the active misrepresentation by the National opposition. So he won’t. Although it could be entertaining watching him have a go. According to Claire Trevett National are just having fun anyway with many “fun” weeks ahead.

          Claire Trevett again pushes wedge politics in an attempt to draw attention to the make up of the coalition. “………..the best-case scenario for Ardern post-2020 is the clowns to the left of her, jokers to the right scenario”

          National party, the fish wrap and associated poodles……what a troika of tripe.

        • Muttonbird 2.1.1.2

          Yes, I would have thought what they were doing, Hosking interviewing the PM the other morning, and both Bridges and Smith in parliament is deliberately misrepresenting.

          Mallard shouldn’t have allowed it.

          What they are doing is whipping up the hateful white right against Maori by deliberately framing all Maori as being exempt which is clearly not the case. They are hoping their voters are dumb and/or racist enough to believe it, and unfortunately they are probably right on that count.

          • James 2.1.1.2.1

            Muttonbird – as you are someone who is quite happy to sit back and accept racism – calling people disgusting racist names (in fact attacking people who point it out).

            The irony in you playing the ooooh racism is bad card is huge.

            Or are you only racist against asians ?

            • James 2.1.1.2.1.1

              Apologies to clarify – accepting others using disgusting racist names (not calling them yourself).

              • Sam

                Every day Wayne proves why the vast majority of adults with degrees could have just learnt on the job instead.

              • reason

                James is the clown who repeats the ‘Corbyn is an anti semite smear ‘ …

                Robert Fisk thinks people like James are contemptible for doing this …

                And for a Pom he has a lot to say about racism in NZ …. most of it as sincere as his ‘ Corbyns an anti Semite ‘ crap

        • tc 2.1.1.3

          He can’t as his role is to offer that reasonable sounding ever so subtle spin as if it’s all ok when he knows that this is desperate and deliberate.

          It just hands Peters more come the GE when he’ll remind voters about slimy bridges, pullya benefit and others while he strides along the hustings.

          National think people are stupid…..the millennials are anything but as they don’t listen to red neck rant talk back, read granny or watch the dross they call tv these days.

      • Sacha 2.1.2

        Misrepresenting facts – as evidenced in the post – affects our whole democracy, not just ‘Labour’. If you can’t win playing honestly, get off the field.

      • KJT 2.1.3

        Because it is not a bloody game, for a start.

        Peoples lives get affected.

        Dare I say, the problem with too many lawyers in Parliament.

        • vto 2.1.3.1

          Exactly KJT (tho not the lawyers part)

          Right wing Nat types and hard-nosed business capitalist types do actually consider it all to be a game.

          They don’t understand that it is not a game – it is people’s lives.

          They should never be trusted. Ever.

      • Ankerrawshark 2.1.4

        If that is the case Chris t it will be a rare moment when Arden doesn’t perform well

      • reason 2.1.5

        Wayne mapp has been a prominent flag bearer for previous racist national bullshit throughout the years ….. but most notably Don Brashs dishonest and failed race baiting iwi /kiwi election campaign.

        Mapp would rather spread racist division and gain votes for National …. than help a poor brown kid lead a better life.

        Child and Youth Mortality Review Committee member Felicity Dumble said there were “all sorts of factors” contributing to the overrepresentation of Māori in suicide statistics. https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/356824/suicide-s-toll-on-maori-youth-laid-bare-in-new-report

        “Socio-economic [status] is part of that, it’s also all sorts of intergenerational trauma in terms of the consequences of colonisation, the impact of institutionalised racism, how people are dealt with and how we meet their needs.”

        https://norightturn.blogspot.com/search?q=mapp+%2B+Maori

        He’s been racist about Afghanistan people in comments he’s made here at TS …. before we found out about the civilian and children butchery he was involved in against them.

        I see a recurring theme of him not giving a fuck about children, the disadvantaged and the poor … all over the world

        He has all the credibility of a Raymond Ratima to me …. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/106542099/mori-suicide-rate-the-highest-its-ever-been-what-are-we-missing

      • Ankerrawshark 2.1.6

        Oh Wayne! You would think that. Of course national will determine there own tactics, like running a black ops out of the PMs department involving whale oil. Their own tactics doesn’t make it right. Take a break from the standard and go and read dirty politics. I seem to remember you did the right thing around Hager’s book hit and run.

        • Anne 2.1.6.1

          I think you will find he read “Hit and Run” because as Defence minister at the time he knew he would be in the book – somewhere. 😉

      • Gabby 2.1.7

        So in Trev’s considered opinion Slick’s Britches aren’t on fire wayney? Houdathungkit.

      • Incognito 2.1.8

        What on Earth is “actively misrepresenting”? Is that a dog whistle or a euphemism by National MPs. Something like “pretty legal”?

  3. Incognito 3

    The TWG has given the Opposition all the ammunition it needs to fire at will. With their willy-nilly carpet-bombing, napalm launches, and showers of bullets they hope to hit the Government at least once. They don’t worry about accuracy or collateral damage; they’re letting out all their built-up emotions and frustrations about their internal problems and poor poll results, which will see power slipping away out of their reach. How low will they go, you ask? You don’t want to know the answer …

  4. Stuart Munro. 4

    The Gnats are really desperate that we not catch up with the rest of the world. That desperation should be toyed with to highlight their inadequacy and unfitness to govern.

  5. vto 5

    .
    Bridges “lets not do this”
    Adern “lets do this”

    Never has it been laid out more clearly for all to see

    The Nats are conservatives – they don’t do anything. They never have. They can’t see the future.
    The Labour lot are progressive – they do things. They always have. They can see the future.

    These truths have been borne out countless times over NZ’s history.

    As such, the Nats have no standing to debate these changes

    The Nats are conservatives and that must always be kept front of mind.

    • vto 5.1

      and listening to David Farrar on RNZ yesterday only confirmed the above… omg, what a heavyweight conservative. I dont think a progressive thought could ever arise in that man’s head..

      … so boringly conservative

      … funny thing is, he probably thinks he is a progressive type…

    • Stuart Munro. 5.2

      They’re not even true conservatives.

      Would true conservatives have fallen all over themselves to bring in migrants or sell out to China? The Gnats are the rotting carcass of the party my grandfather voted for.

    • James 5.3

      Here is something stupid and not well thought out

      .
      Bridges “lets not do this”
      Adern “lets do this”

      Never has it been laid out more clearly for all to see

      Fixed it for you.

      • reason 5.3.1

        Our Media kept NZ citizens in the dark when John Key turned us into a corruption aiding tax haven ….

        The bent money people knew about us though as their words show : “In fact, what is even better news is that this is receiving little publicity in New Zealand – which means there is a higher likelihood the PM will nudge it through without too much meddling from the country’s left wing camp.”

        They censored real facts and information about Key … leaving us totally uninformed when the panama papers exposed him …. and us.

        Andrew Little: How proud is the Prime Minister of the company he is now keeping when the Panama Papers lump New Zealand in with such auspicious company as Belize, the Seychelles, and Costa Rica in the list of 21 tax havens?

        Rt Hon JOHN KEY: I think New Zealand can stand quite proudly on the regime that it runs here …

        And now our media which covered up and kept quiet for the Nats dirty tax ‘regime ‘ deeds …..

        Is amplifying Nact racist bullshit .. about Labours tax work.

        Dirt is what dirt does …. they couldn’t clean up their acts if they tried.

    • SHG 5.4

      The Nats are conservatives – they don’t do anything. They never have. They can’t see the future.

      Which Labour government was it that legalised same-sex marriage?

    • Shadrach 5.5

      “Adern “lets do this””
      Lets do what?
      Call countless working groups?
      Signal the end of an industry that will result in thousands of job losses and cost the country billions?
      Screw up your own flagship housing policy?
      Establish a working group to advise on tax policy and be hopelessly out of your depth when there is a reaction to its proposals?
      Claim that running a socialist youth NGO and serving fish is somehow small business experience?

      I’ll leave it there, but the list of failure of this accident of a PM is spilling over.

      • Incognito 5.5.1

        Her “list of failure” [sic] that is “spilling over” rivals BLiP’s list of John Key’s lies. He served three terms so you may have to endure two more with Jacinda Ardern as PM.

        • Shadrach 5.5.1.1

          Well by then there will be even more working groups commissioned to study the results of previous working groups, just like in mental health.

          • Incognito 5.5.1.1.1

            Oh, I see, it’s a list of working groups and initiatives rather than abject failures because things are still being worked through and considered by the Government. Got it now, thanks.

      • Pat 5.5.2

        if the list is spilling over why then do you need to repeat yourself within that pitiful list of 5?(4)

      • Marcus Morris 5.5.3

        You are whistling in the wind Shadrach, which is about all you Tory trolls can manage these days. I very much doubt that you happened to be listening to Kim Hill’s absorbing and revealing interview with Dame Annette King yesterday morning. It would have been too gut wrenching for you. Amongst the many interesting points she made was her brief explanation of the Kiwi Build programme. Did you know that it was actually promulgated by two Salvation Army officers – you have probably heard of the organisation – it actually cares, like the Labour party, about people, ordinary people. Anyway Dame Annette is very confident that the scheme will bear fruit. I will be heading off to my book shop tomorrow to buy the book and I expect that there will lots of other stuff that will be worth “broadcasting” on this post – you might find it revealing as well Shadrach but I suspect that you will not make the effort.

        • Shadrach 5.5.3.1

          Oh yippee the Sallies and Annette King have spoken. All hail kiwibuild!

          Nah, Labour had 9 years to get their shit together on KB, and they stuffed it up. Now Twyfords claiming houses that were already being built!

  6. AB 6

    Right wing ideology is about finding ways to justify having no principles. Everything the left does should start from that awareness.

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.1

      But that would involve doing some work, something that left wing ideology is averse too by it’s very nature. Which would explain why there has been no messaging around this from the government and commentators have to refer to national having a message as somehow being dog whistling

      • ankerawshark 6.1.1

        Tuppence Shrewsbury…………doing some work something that left wing ideology is averse too. FFS you really are incredibly ignorant aren’t you.

      • Bewildered 6.1.2

        Right on there TS, possibly go even further on top of no work with no individual responsibility, just rights and a whole lot of ignorance covered up by virtue signalling and PR statements like we are “principled”

      • left_forward 6.1.3

        So work is a right wing principle?

        How does this underpin the right’s attack on the CBT proposal from the working group? One of the principles behind CBT is to make tax more equitable for workers. If the right are defending the principle of work and labour, why are they not enthusiastic about it?

        They are not, so this is bullshit tuppence ha’penny.
        AB’s point stands.

      • Blacklist 6.1.4

        Tuppence Shrewsbury, National do not have a message, they have contradiction, disruption and repetition thereof. As evidenced by the question time transcript.

    • left_forward 6.2

      This is spot on AB. Most of the R wing trolls here would find it impossible to define a principle that underpins what they say.

  7. Kevin 7

    There is no ‘an’ required before anathema. It is a noun.

    • Muttonbird 7.1

      Well, no. You mean pseudo-adjective.

      When it is being used as a pseudo-adjective, no article is required. Most cases when anathema is used it is used as an adjective I would have thought.

      Synonyms are: abhorrent, hateful, odious, repugnant, repellent, offensive. All adjectives. Replace anathema with one of these adjectives and you wouldn’t use an article.

      But when it is used as a noun (as you are claiming) it should or could have an indefinite article preceding it. In this case MS is using it as a noun (replace “an anathema” with “a dog”).

      ‘An anathema’ a bit of a mouthful which is why English users in their own adaptive way tend to clip it. Either way is ok though.

  8. patricia bremner 8

    Some time back I warned that a wounded National Party was a dangerous beast. The fact that every Maori seat is now held by Labour, is to be wedged every way possible.

    They dread the public accepting a CGT as if that happens the wilderness beckons for a long time. I hope Winston is ready to change his views.

    I definitely got the Gnats nasty attitude right. The Government is now on the end of a number of stories showing how long it takes DHB’s to respond to stroke victims. That is because the Gnats see the Minister of Health as vulnerable.

    National really care about stroke victims sarc. Msm does too sarc. The problems of funding permissions and rehabilitation times are ignored.

    Any issues will be distorted and presented as a failure. National have a few weeks, then the complete winter warmth payment kicks in, along with other changes like the cost of living rise and the Governments response to the tax working group.

    The Government just needs to present the truth over and over. Most don’t believe National now.

    • tc 8.1

      +100 Clark just has to show health funding over the years of national against their ‘open door no fit and proper test just bring money’ migration policy.

      Simple to see why healths in such a state once you do that as we grew population about 12-14% under shonky. Education rinse and repeat etc etc. 2020 could be a total bath for them if the truth got out there.

      Then there’s leaky building legacy from 90’s national they kept kicking down the road. They’re quite a regressive mob in reality.

  9. TomPained 9

    May I suggest that the manager of the CGT campagn ring Paul Keating to ask how he did it ?
    He may be available to waltz the Tasman .. there might be a few chuckles in it.

    • alwyn 9.1

      I wouldn’t really recommend it.
      Paul these days spends all his time with his collection of antiques, particularly clocks, from the time he was happiest. He now lives back in the French Empire of Napoleon at the start of the 19th century.
      He’s very knowledgeable and very interesting when talking about it as I observed when he opened a private museum of such works, but he really doesn’t seem to take much interest in anything that has happened in the last 200 years anymore.

  10. Sacha 10

    “Labour is struggling with the PR because it thought that National would play fair and wait for the Government to announce its response before going on the attack.”

    Where is Labour’s strategic advice coming from? Why would any cashed-up opposition with heaps of egos to keep busy wait to take on something as obvious as tax policy? Bonus for taking the focus off their fragile party leadership.

    • Jimmy 10.1

      No opposition party would wait. That really says more about Labour’s advisors or lack of experience if they are surprised by the opposition going on the attack at every opportunity.

  11. Chris T 11

    TBF Ardern didn’t exactly do herself any favours in question time yesterday, when she came across as not having read the fricken report.

    • BM 11.1

      Ardern’s just a figurehead, she’s there to smile and do public relations.

      Knowing stuff is not part of her job description.

      • I feel love 11.1.1

        yawn.

        • BM 11.1.1.1

          Come on she’s kept out of the loop on everything and has little idea of what’s going on.

          Not that it’s actually a problem for the government,
          In a low IQ place like NZ having a PM who’s there for the feelz is just as effective as having PM’s like Clark and Key who were all over everything.

          Just takes a bit to get used to for anyone who follows politics, but for your average dingus in the street though, not a problem, smiling face, concern face, interacting with school kids, stopping ticket scalpers, DJ’ing, doing fashion shoots, that’s the important stuff, that other stuff PM’s do? yeah nah, that’s boring.

          • Roflcopter 11.1.1.1.1

            It was obviously part of her agreement to become Labour Party leader… everyone else must do the heavy lifting, while I stand there and say “Let’s Tax This”.

          • Stuart Munro. 11.1.1.1.2

            Oh please.

            You’ve got a drooling moron like Bridges, who can’t even work out that the coalition is still deciding their tax policy, and you want to have a go at Jacinda?

            You must be dumb enough to vote for Trump.

          • marty mars 11.1.1.1.3

            Yeah mr thick don’t like our great PM. Ho hum hold the faint and grab the smelling salts I feel a swoon coming on.

          • Gabby 11.1.1.1.4

            Is the UK a high IQ place or a low IQ place BMmer?

          • Bazza64 11.1.1.1.5

            You nailed that one BM, Grant Robertson is the ventriloquist & Jacinda the puppet. Early press conferences had GR whispering what to say to JA – she is the smiley jettsetter, but knows bugger all about the economy (Yes I got to see the GDP numbers in advance.)

            • Muttonbird 11.1.1.1.5.1

              Nice fluffing, but BM will have passed out by now.

              • Bazza64

                Fluffing, hilarious. The last ditch job after you have been turned down as a telephone sex worker for unconvincing vocal ability.

                • Muttonbird

                  Sorry but it looked to me like you were trying to impress BM with your obsequious comment.

                  I was just pointing out he will be sleeping off the day’s booze right now.

                  • Bazza64

                    Maybe BM is a raging alcoholic ? Had to google obsequious, you are obviously smarter than me ? I’m sure that word doesn’t feature in many texts nowadays.

      • Jimmy 11.1.2

        Correct. She is the figure head that has increased Labour’s popularity at election time from 24%? to 37%? And even higher now. An amazing turn around in a short time. But as a leader she needs to surround herself with smart competent people which in my opinion she has not. Everyone knows she is short on experience but unfortunately too many of the cabinet are too.

    • Ankerrawshark 11.2

      If that is the case Chris t it will be a rare moment when Arden doesn’t perform well

      • Chris T 11.2.1

        If you leave out the not knowing what a GDP is and the 3 articles of the treaty

        • Ankerrawshark 11.2.1.1

          Chris t re Ardern”…………is that all you got?

          Arden absolutely wipes the floor with Bridges……..

          • Enough is Enough 11.2.1.1.1

            I suspect that depends on what side of the political spectrum you sit on. In my view there is certainly no wiping of any floor floor from either party.

            It is an embarrassing display of juvenile name calling, mock laughter, taunting, spin, failure to answer straight questions and ugliness from both sides.

            I am sure if you are a Tory you are applauding Bridges for calling out Jacinda for being a socialist. (I don’t know why that is a bad thing, or why she is being defensive on that).

            For Labour supporters I am sure they were impressed with Jacinda’s Wikipedia quip.

            For me I watch in disbelief that these people, firstly think that they are so smart, and secondly that we entrust them to run our country.

            • ankerawshark 11.2.1.1.1.1

              I completely trust Jacinda to run this country. I think she is super smart.

              Question time would need to be completely restructured to prevent the juvenile behaviour you describe. So you have any suggestions enough is enough.

              I stand by what I said. Ms Ardern and the coalition govt are taking their time to review the report and listen to amongst others small business and then
              report back. Sounds pretty mature to me.

              • Enough is Enough

                For clarity (as it appears from your response you need that) I was referring to your “wipes the floor” comment.

                • ankerawshark

                  Thanks for the clarity enough is enough.

                  I still stand by my view of MS Ardern, having watched many many clips of her responding to Bridges. I realize there is no objective measure of this so it is my (strong ) opinion.

    • Fireblade 11.3

      All the little parrots squarked and one after the other, with mindless repetition, they all repeat the words they heard the day before.

    • …she came across as not having read the fricken report.

      To me, she came across as not willing to give Bridges’ racist dog-whistling any more oxygen than she was required to. Whereas, Bridges came across as eager to stir up the grumpy-old-white-man constituency against “the special people,” as one of the less-offensive terms for them on Kiwiblog has it.

      • Chris T 11.4.1

        He was asking about environmental taxes that were named as recommendations in the report. He was asking her if they were recommended in the report, by name (eg fertiliser tax eg) and even gave her the page number.

        And she refused to acknowledge they were.

        Because she obviously hadn’t read the thing, and knew if they weren’t she would look stupid.

        They are and she still looked stupid

    • patricia bremner 11.5

      Chris and BM you are behaving like a bloody pair of right wing Wallies.
      You are still thinking “Brainless Girl” It shows in your every comment.
      While what we think of your misogyny might get us banned if we wrote it down.

      Do you truly believe JA could move among political and world Leaders as she does without being intelligent?
      She is wholeheartedly supported and valued by her peers who put her in her position with no dissenting voice.

      She has skillfully managed three parties and gained consensus in several areas.
      You however respond to the right wing memes like that dog to the whistle.

  12. Anne 12

    I think that Ad is right. Labour is struggling with the PR because it thought that National would play fair and wait for the Government to announce its response before going on the attack.

    This is one area where Labour never learns. It’s been going on for decades and each generation of Labour politicians make the same mistakes as their forebears. Are they not capable of understanding that… National can never be trusted.

  13. TomPained 13

    >she’s kept out of the loop on everything and has little idea of what’s going on.
    Prove it. Government is a team effort where people specialise.
    >In a low IQ place like NZ
    Have you ever been to Australia ?
    >having a PM who’s there for the feelz
    Have you ever listened to Adern on policy ?
    > Clark and Key who were all over everything.
    How many hard-earned tax-payer dollars did Key waste on his flag campaign ?
    > smiling face, concern face, interacting with school kids, stopping ticket scalpers, DJ’ing, >doing fashion shoots, that’s the important stuff … that’s boring.
    Would you prefer Thatcher the milk snatcher ?

  14. Ankerrawshark 14

    Ad and Mickey whose opinions I respect enormously have mentioned that the government has left a gap in the narrative which is allowing national to fill with dog whistles.

    Labour needs to get agreement with its coalition partner before they make comment.

    I am not sure how the general population are reading things, but surely for some, Simon will appear to be chasing cars, before they have even got off the road.

    I think if Labour just goes for one part of cgt, eg tax on gains from investment properties and sells it will a good returns on lower end tax, it will be cleaner and simpler.

    Btw anyone know why the coalition isn’t considering a rent freeze? I think it would be great

    • Sacha 14.1

      “anyone know why the coalition isn’t considering a rent freeze?”

      Not wanting to give any more ammo for those already claiming their employment laws are ‘back to the 70s’, prehaps? Old ‘carless days’ adverts would flood social media. Even lightweights like Bridges would look good opposing it.

  15. Rapunzel 15

    It doesn’t get more revolting than Bridges inserting himself into an event at two local schools, in exactly the same manner he pushed his own political barrow in with the hopsitilised woman in Bali all in a desperate bid to survive, it is quite revolting especially as no one is sure what is happening and the police being in attendance was already clear and did not have anything to do with Bridge’s whatsoever other than him training to position himself as some sort of “caped crusader”. Blerk.

  16. Ankerrawshark 16

    Rolcopter….ha ha ha ha ha ha”……..you and many of you colleagues who comment on news websites make such facsile comments about jacinda it makes me lol at your lack of intelligence and ability to craft a reasoned argument. Mean of me I am sure to poke fun at your ilk……….but oh well, it’s good to have a good laugh and I may as well laugh at someone who reveals so much about their own lack of intellectual capacity

  17. indiana 17

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111083926/sir-michael-cullen-debates-impact-of-tax-reform-on-farmers-without-the-politics

    “Cabinet papers show Cullen was to be paid $1062 a day in his role as chairman of the TWG.

    “We extended his appointment as the chair of the TWG to 30 June because we were aware there would be extended public discussion on the report, and this has played out,” Finance Minister Grant Robertson said in a statement.”

    At least this guys getting paid to dog whistle, even after he has no further work to do.

    • Muttonbird 17.1

      He is working. He’s answering questions about the report. Or do you expect him to do it for free?

      • Alan 17.1.1

        is there no one in Labour, Greens or NZ 1 capable of doing that???

        • McFlock 17.1.1.1

          lol

          So you expect someone to acquire intimate knowledge of the TWG report and an understanding of how it came to its decisions, then answer random questions about that subject area as and when required, for free.

          Now I know where Muffin Break got their employment ideas from lol

    • Given the flood of misinformation about his report from Nat spin doctors the last couple of weeks, it appears he has plenty of work to do correcting their bullshit.

    • Formerly Ross 17.3

      On the contrary Indiana, Cullen clearly has plenty of work to do. Not least of which is trying to get the RWNJs to engage their brains.

      • Stuart Munro. 17.3.1

        Bit of a hail Mary at the best of times. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.” Upton Sinclair

    • AB 17.4

      Newsflash – Cullen’s annoying combination of intellect, principle and wit continues to enrage right wingers a decade on from his leaving office.
      Put it next to the stories “Sun came up this morning”, “John Key still rich”, etc.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 17.5

      Equivalent to about $275k salary. A lot. But not ridiculous for that type of job, I would think?

      Of course National don’t actually care about this at all, just an attempt at a cheap shot. Because winning… Don’t care about policy or benefiting the nation.

  18. Wensleydale 18

    National will go as low as they feel they need to if they believe it’ll return them to the government benches. If they really want to pillage the Don Brash redneck “Those bludging Maaaoris are getting special treatment again!” voter base, good luck to them. They’re an unscrupulous and mercenary lot, and the only surprise is that anyone is at all surprised.

  19. Cinny 19

    Last weeks episode of The Listening Post, did a story about taxes, so very relevant to what’s happening here re the CGT.

    Basically many mainstream news networks will slam (in our case) the CGT; usually because individuals within news networks will often have investment properties. They don’t want a CGT, so they give airtime to those who are anti the CGT, in an attempt to sway public opinion and keep their tax free income.

    It’s the first story up, and is approx 10mins long, the narratives some networks spin will resonate so much because it’s very similar to what we are being told. There are a substantial volume of media moguls who use tax havens, hence their anti narrative when covering tax changes to create a fair society are suggested. Reminds me of the likes of hosking or that mark richardson tory.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur159wl3Fn4

    “Evasion: The politics of how the media report tax”

    How Rutger Bregman put tax reform back on the news agenda

    Tax rates are one of those stories that TV producers would probably rather leave to print journalists or authors.

    It’s not visual, it’s complicated; in short, it’s not a sexy topic.

    Until, a Dutch academic, Rutger Bregman, spoke at the recent World Economic Forum in Davos and made news by telling a room full of billionaires: “Want to fix the global economy? Then dig deeper. Pay up. Tax the rich.”

    Fox News’s Tucker Carlson invited Bregman onto his programme but he probably didn’t expect him to go after him, the channel that he works for, and the media in general, for its complicity in almost never covering tax reform.

    The interview did not go to air but the entire exchange, recorded on a phone camera, has since gone viral.

    • patricia bremner 19.1

      1000%+ Thank you Cinny. Jack Tame admitted he had property and was well paid but believed in CGT.

      • Cinny 19.1.1

        For reals re Jack Tame, good on him for speaking up and supporting a fair society, one which has a CGT. That’s really good news.

        Awesome 🙂

  20. McFlock 20

    First they defended the kiwi way of life, but most kiwis aren’t leveraged owners of 80 rental properties so nobody really cared.
    Then they defended the farming way of life, but the fedfarmers head said that nobody bought farms on the basis of annual return so they should all be paying a CGT anyway.
    Then they defended white privilege, but by this time nobody really gave a fuck.

    • AB 20.1

      Hope so – but I fancy that attacking illusory Maori ‘privilege’ plays well in Nyu Zullon.
      Interesting though – to see the Nats heading down a Trumpian rabbit hole of lies.
      And Venezuela! There’s always Venezuela – the best tool in the scaremongering box.

  21. Brutus Iscariot 21

    Maori organisations already pay a preferential tax rate (like religious institutions) so Bridges statement wasn’t exactly stretching credulity.

    Hopefully it sheds light on some of these obsolete exemptions.

  22. I feel love 22

    Supposed Corbyn anti semite = righty outrage

    Certain National Party dogwhistling to racists = no righty outrage?

  23. Observer Tokoroa 23

    The sadness of the Trolls

    It is kind of weird that the entire aim of National is to make sure that nobody but the wealthy shall exist naturally and happily in New Zealand.

    They have no intention of doing anything but filling their own bellies, in their own comfortable homes, with their girl friends, while the Workers and the Poor, -The Constructive Members of New Zealand Society, – are attacked by merciless Landlords with Excessive, impossible Rental Fees.

    The pathetic trolls, are dragging their feet behind them.

  24. National wears one of these around their necks.

    Albatross – studio version – YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAefTj7GXwQ

  25. Observer Tokoroa 25

    Right On Wild Katipo

    The Albatross and the Wealthy

    The Albatross Is just trash to the New Zealand wealthy. As are Children. Simon and Mr Hosking have wound the Clock back to thousands of Years.

    Thereby ensuring it is alright for the wealthy to destroy every Living thing- apart from the Wealthy. With impunity.

    They take all the great fishes from the Oceans too!

    Why do we let these Wealthy scum do it ?

  26. infused 26

    Adern has one hell of a temper in the house

    • Incognito 26.1

      Who’s Adern? A new kid on the block? This name seems to come up a lot lately, even in MSM!?

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    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on the government’s smokefree laws debacle
    The most charitable explanation for National’s behaviour over the smokefree legislation is that they have dutifully fulfilled the wishes of the Big Tobacco lobby and then cast around – incompetently, as it turns out – for excuses that might sell this health policy U-turn to the public. The less charitable ...
    5 days ago
  • Top 10 links at 10 am for Monday, December 4
    As Deb Te Kawa writes in an op-ed, the new Government seems to have immediately bought itself fights with just about everyone. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Here’s my pick of the top 10 news and analysis links elsewhere as of 10 am on Monday December 4, including:Palau’s President ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Be Honest.
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    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: New Zealand’s foreign policy resets on AUKUS, Gaza and Ukraine
    New Zealand’s international relations are under new management. And Winston Peters, the new foreign minister, is already setting a change agenda. As expected, this includes a more pro-US positioning when it comes to the Pacific – where Peters will be picking up where he left off. Peters sought to align ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    6 days ago
  • Auckland rail tunnel the world’s most expensive
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    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    6 days ago
  • First big test coming
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    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    6 days ago
  • The Song of Saqua: Volume III
    Time to revisit something I haven’t covered in a while: the D&D campaign, with Saqua the aquatic half-vampire. Last seen in July: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2023/07/27/the-song-of-saqua-volume-ii/ The delay is understandable, once one realises that the interim saw our DM come down with a life-threatening medical situation. They have since survived to make ...
    6 days ago
  • Chris Bishop: Smokin’
    Yes. Correct. It was an election result. And now we are the elected government. ...
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    6 days ago
  • 2023 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #48
    A chronological listing of news and opinion articles posted on the Skeptical Science  Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Nov 26, 2023 thru Dec 2, 2023. Story of the Week CO2 readings from Mauna Loa show failure to combat climate change Daily atmospheric carbon dioxide data from Hawaiian volcano more ...
    6 days ago
  • Affirmative Action.
    Affirmative Action was a key theme at this election, although I don’t recall anyone using those particular words during the campaign.They’re positive words, and the way the topic was talked about was anything but. It certainly wasn’t a campaign of saying that Affirmative Action was a good thing, but that, ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    7 days ago
  • 100 days of something
    It was at the end of the Foxton straights, at the end of 1978, at 100km/h, that someone tried to grab me from behind on my Yamaha.They seemed to be yanking my backpack. My first thought was outrage. My second was: but how? Where have they come from? And my ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    7 days ago
  • Look who’s stepped up to champion Winston
    There’s no news to be gleaned from the government’s official website today  – it contains nothing more than the message about the site being under maintenance. The time this maintenance job is taking and the costs being incurred have us musing on the government’s commitment to an assault on inflation. ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago
  • What's The Story?
    Don’t you sometimes wish they’d just tell the truth? No matter how abhorrent or ugly, just straight up tell us the truth?C’mon guys, what you’re doing is bad enough anyway, pretending you’re not is only adding insult to injury.Instead of all this bollocks about the Smokefree changes being to do ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 week ago
  • The longest of weeks
    Hello! Here comes the Saturday edition of More Than A Feilding, catching you up on the past week’s editions.Friday Under New Management Week in review, quiz style1. Which of these best describes Aotearoa?a. Progressive nation, proud of its egalitarian spirit and belief in a fair go b. Best little country on the planet c. ...
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  • Suggested sessions of EGU24 to submit abstracts to
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    1 week ago
  • Under New Management
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    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    1 week ago
  • While we wait patiently, our new Minister of Education is up and going with a 100-day action plan
    Sorry to say, the government’s official website is still out of action. When Point of Order paid its daily visit, the message was the same as it has been for the past week: Site under maintenance Beehive.govt.nz is currently under maintenance. We will be back shortly. Thank you for your ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago
  • DAVID FARRAR: Hysterical bullshit
    Radio NZ reports: Te Pāti Māori’s co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer has accused the new government of “deliberate .. systemic genocide” over its policies to roll back the smokefree policy and the Māori Health Authority. The left love hysterical language. If you oppose racial quotas in laws, you are a racist. And now if you sack ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 week ago

  • Ministers visit Hawke’s Bay to grasp recovery needs
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon joined Cyclone Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell and Transport and Local Government Minister Simeon Brown, to meet leaders of cyclone and flood-affected regions in the Hawke’s Bay. The visit reinforced the coalition Government’s commitment to support the region and better understand its ongoing requirements, Mr Mitchell says.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activity
    New Zealand has joined the UK and other partners in condemning malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government, Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau Judith Collins says. The statement follows the UK’s attribution today of malicious cyber activity impacting its domestic democratic institutions and processes, as well ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Disestablishment of Te Pūkenga begins
    The Government has begun the process of disestablishing Te Pūkenga as part of its 100-day plan, Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills Penny Simmonds says.  “I have started putting that plan into action and have met with the chair and chief Executive of Te Pūkenga to advise them of my ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Climate Change Minister to attend COP28 in Dubai
    Climate Change Minister Simon Watts will be leaving for Dubai today to attend COP28, the 28th annual UN climate summit, this week. Simon Watts says he will push for accelerated action towards the goals of the Paris Agreement, deliver New Zealand’s national statement and connect with partner countries, private sector leaders ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • New Zealand to host 2024 Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins yesterday announced New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting (SPDMM). “Having just returned from this year’s meeting in Nouméa, I witnessed first-hand the value of meeting with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security and defence matters. I welcome the opportunity to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Study shows need to remove distractions in class
    The Government is committed to lifting school achievement in the basics and that starts with removing distractions so young people can focus on their learning, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.   The 2022 PISA results released this week found that Kiwi kids ranked 5th in the world for being distracted ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago
  • Minister sets expectations of Commissioner
    Today I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New Zealand needs a strong and stable ETS
    New Zealand needs a strong and stable Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) that is well placed for the future, after emission units failed to sell for the fourth and final auction of the year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says.  At today’s auction, 15 million New Zealand units (NZUs) – each ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • PISA results show urgent need to teach the basics
    With 2022 PISA results showing a decline in achievement, Education Minister Erica Stanford is confident that the Coalition Government’s 100-day plan for education will improve outcomes for Kiwi kids.  The 2022 PISA results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths compared to 2018 and confirms ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Collins leaves for Pacific defence meeting
    Defence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Working for Families gets cost of living boost
    Putting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...
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    5 days ago
  • Post-Cabinet press conference
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    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrapped
    The Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in Gaza
    New Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...
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    1 week ago
  • Condolences on passing of Henry Kissinger
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Backing our kids to learn the basics
    Every child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through trade
    I would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber.  I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...
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    1 week ago
  • Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, Auckland
    Good morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States.  This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...
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    1 week ago
  • India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic Priority
    Good morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...
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  • Coalition Government unveils 100-day plan
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    1 week ago
  • New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement
    A significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...
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    2 weeks ago

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