UK Labour and antisemitism

Written By: - Date published: 11:30 am, November 20th, 2019 - 26 comments
Categories: International, Politics, racism, uk politics - Tags: , , , ,

26 comments on “UK Labour and antisemitism ”

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  1. gsays 1
    20 November 2019 at 11:43 am

    Like Adrian has observed on Open Mike about Assange, "it just reminds me how easily led and manipulated so many good people on the Left have become,…"

    This applies to here on TS about Corbyn's anti semitism, all too many folk were prepared to turn a blind eye or disengage their critical thinking and parrot the lines about hating Jews.

    Sometimes they quoted The Guardian, which has since been shown to massively biased against the Labour Party leader

  2. tc 2
    20 November 2019 at 12:01 pm

    Corbyn reminds me of DC. The smearing commenced awhile ago.

    Seems the best candidate to get on with genuine change for all but has a party not unified behind him with ‘Tory light’ members that's likely to defacto hand it to the tories.

  3. Gosman 3
    20 November 2019 at 12:02 pm

    Ummm… you had three points not two

  4. Brigid 4
    20 November 2019 at 12:09 pm

    And to use the word semite to refer to Israelis exclusively is also foolish and inaccurate. A Semite is a member of a group of people originally of southwestern Asia that includes Jews and Arabs. Some Israelis are not semites e.g. Ashkenazi Jews who established communities along the Rhine river in Western Germany and in Northern France dating to the Middle Ages. This settlement predates the first use of the word 'Semite'

    • Gosman 4.1
      20 November 2019 at 12:10 pm

      Great idea! Redefine the term Anti-semitic and the problem becomes much smaller for the UK Labour party.

      • Dukeofurl 4.1.1
        20 November 2019 at 12:38 pm

        Well Just reverse the 'new anti semitism' definition which has come into being as a political weapon used by Israel. like Jews are the indigenous people of Palestine.

        Racsism against Arabs is of course endemic in Israel, and its used by politicians

        • Gosman 4.1.1.1
          20 November 2019 at 1:17 pm

          The whole concept of "indigenous people" is a ridiculous Eurocentric term anyway. I just like how it is being thrown back in the face of the people who usually promote it.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 4.1.1.1.1
            20 November 2019 at 1:40 pm

            "Indigenous people" a ridiculous concept? How so? And, if you choose to respond, try putting yourself in a few 'indigenous shoes' before you answer.

            "Indigenous peoples, also known as First peoples, Aboriginal peoples or Native peoples, are ethnic groups who are the original owners and caretakers of a given region, in contrast to groups that have settled, occupied or colonized the area more recently. Groups are usually described as indigenous when they maintain traditions or other aspects of an early culture that is associated with a given region. Not all indigenous peoples share this characteristic, as many have adopted substantial elements of a colonizing culture, such as dress, religion or language. Indigenous peoples may be settled in a given region (sedentary) or exhibit a nomadic lifestyle across a large territory, but they are generally historically associated with a specific territory on which they depend. Indigenous societies are found in every inhabited climate zone and continent of the world."

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples

            • Gosman 4.1.1.1.1.1
              20 November 2019 at 2:36 pm

              Wow! Wikipedia. You have completely devastated my argument /sarc

              Just a few questions for you. Who are the Indigenous people in England? How about France? What about Germany?

              Answer me that and then tell me the term is not Eurocentric.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                20 November 2019 at 3:26 pm

                Your 'argument', Gosman, that "indigenous people" is a ridiculous concept, seems a tad threadbare – evidence-free even. wink

                Perhaps you could define your position more precisely, e.g. what is it about the concept of "indigenous people" that you find so ridiculous? Once that's clear, then maybe we can debate the evidence.

                BTW, the Wikipedia article on “Indigenous peoples” includes 78 references, and some extra reading. You could try opening your eyes for a broader perspective, but that’s just IMHO.
                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples#References

                • Gosman …
                  20 November 2019 at 3:43 pm

                  I've asked you who the indigenous people in England, France, and Germany are. Please let me know and then we can discuss why the concept is ridiculous.

                  • Psycho Milt …
                    20 November 2019 at 3:57 pm

                    Are you unfamiliar with the words "English," "French" and "German," that has left you wondering who the indigenous people of England, France and Germany are?

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    20 November 2019 at 4:05 pm

                    My question ["Indigenous people" a ridiculous concept? How so?] preceded yours. You responded to my question with several questions of your own.

                    Your response or (if you prefer) ‘answer’ seems to be that you think "indigenous people" is a ridiculous concept because it is "Eurocentric".

                    Could you please lead me (briefly) through your line of reasoning (maybe on Open Mike), because I’m genuinely not following it.

                    As Incognito points out (and I agree), not all eurocentric concepts are ridiculous, so what is it about this one (the origins of which can be traced to classical Greek culture a few centuries B.C.) that irks you so?

                  • mikesh …
                    20 November 2019 at 6:32 pm

                    "Indigenous" is a relative term. In NZ Maoris are indigenous relative to Europeans, who arrived later. However the Maoris are not autochthonous since they originated in another part of the world.

              • Incognito …
                20 November 2019 at 3:27 pm

                Here’s one answer, from Wikipedia, to humour you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Britons

                I notice that you have yet again derailed a discussion thread with semantic skulduggery and nit picking. Who cares if “indigenous people” is a ridiculous Eurocentric term, whatever that means? The name New Zealand is Eurocentric and maybe we use a Eurocentric language on this site to communicate. Do you like flying?

                • McFlock …
                  20 November 2019 at 3:44 pm

                  To be fair, Brigid introduced the semitic-semantic nitpicking that deflected discussion from Labour's actions (or lack). It's a bit like a homophobe saying "I can't be homophobic because I ain't scared of them".

                  Gossy picked up that baton and ran with it.

                  • Incognito …
                    20 November 2019 at 3:59 pm

                    Yes, I know, but he ran away and didn’t fetch. He could have left the baton – he has form and I’ve warned him.

                    • Gosman …
                      20 November 2019 at 4:22 pm

                      Depends on how you look at it. The issue around anti-semitism in the UK is tied up with the concept of Zionism and the State of Israel. This is in turn tied up with the idea that the Jewish people need to have a homeland and that Israel/Palestine is that homeland given they are the "indigenous" people of the area and the Arabs are in fact relatively recent arrivals. Disputing that narrative can lead to claims of anti-semitism. It is difficult to address elements of these charges of anti-semitism without tackling what indigenous actually means.

                    • Incognito []
                      20 November 2019 at 4:33 pm

                      It is difficult to address elements of these charges of anti-semitism without tackling what indigenous actually means.

                      To you, it means this:

                      The whole concept of “indigenous people” is a ridiculous Eurocentric term anyway. [my italics]

                      You have done enough under this OP so take it to OM from here onwards.

                • Gosman …
                  20 November 2019 at 3:48 pm

                  The Celtic culture (and likely many people) migrated to the UK sometime between 1200 and 800 B.C.E. There were pre-Celtic people in Britain before that.

                  • Incognito …
                    20 November 2019 at 3:55 pm

                    Lovely and thanks for sharing with us. Now, could you please stick to the topic of the OP or take your pearls of wisdom to OM. Please note there is no question mark.

          • Stuart Munro. 4.1.1.1.2
            21 November 2019 at 2:35 pm

            You miss the point as usual – the so-called state of Israel exercises systematic prejudice against Palestinians, treating them like stateless persons even as they steal their land.

            The Palestinians are indigenous enough that their claim to "Israeli" land is better than that of those who are murdering and dispossessing them.

      • Brigid 4.1.2
        20 November 2019 at 5:11 pm

        Go put your head in a sack you moron