Non-news News and News Non-news

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1. Robert Guyton 1

   13 July 2017 at 12:36 pm

   Non-news and news-non-news!
   James’ll be over it like a rash!
2. RRM 2

   13 July 2017 at 12:45 pm

   Green Party won’t work with National…

   Green Party won’t work with Winston First…

   The pool of people they can work with is small, and getting smaller!

   I can only assume the Green Party ENJOYS being taken for granted, used and then discarded by the Labour Party time after time after time…?

   (Or perhaps they ENJOY being an opposition party? All of the pay, none of the responsibility?)
   • Bill 2.1

     13 July 2017 at 12:47 pm

     The Green Party have stated quite categorically that they will work with NZF.

     Nice to see you wanting to wank off on non-news.
     • WILD KATIPO 2.1.1

       13 July 2017 at 4:18 pm

       Erm… that correction came after Barry Coates had delivered his postings on The Daily Blog, and subsequently was ‘told to pull his head in’ by the Greens leadership… as demonstrated by Shaw when under question from the media…

       * That correction happened 2 days after ( today 13/7/2017 ) two days after the original post on TDB.

       All in all,… a rather difficult situation ,.. still… compared to the corrupt long ,
       long list of National party hypocrisy *, this whole thing is a storm in a teacup. As so many right wingers are so fond of saying ,… ‘ this will all blow over soon and be forgotten as the public doesn’t care’… well, the same could be said about this .

       And no matter how you paint it , – both NZ First and the Greens have many commonality’s between them in policy’s , a common goal with those policy’s , – with the Ace card being – the displacement of the very government that opposes both of them and their policy’s . Whether it be environmental , state owned asset sales or social justice issues , the Greens and NZ First have nothing to lose and everything to gain by issuing a brief public endorsement of the good points of each others party’s thus creating a public perception of mutual willingness to work towards the common goal and also strengthening the bonds between them.

       * Recall Blips long , long list of the lies of John Key .

       The great big list of John Key’s big fat lies (UPDATED) « The Standard
       https://thestandard.org.nz/the-great-big-list-of-john-keys-big-fat-lies-updated/

       Then ask yourselves, … is this minor furore that is only interesting to political aficionados and media hacks really worth the effort?

       Take a leaf from the RWNJ’s and see that the public dont really care about political spats like this . There’s bigger fish to fry in the long game than this sort of titivating sibling rivalry.
       • weka 2.1.1.1

         13 July 2017 at 5:14 pm

         Turei laid out the GP position on Sunday, that included working with NZF if they have to.
         • Red 2.1.1.1.1

           13 July 2017 at 5:42 pm

           So the Green Party will work with an avowed racist in their opinion, big step
           • McFlock 2.1.1.1.1.1

             13 July 2017 at 5:45 pm

             aren’t you lot all about pragmatism and compromise?

             Still, better than working with a nat.
           • Bill 2.1.1.1.1.2

             13 July 2017 at 5:49 pm

             “in their opinion”?

             You saying they’re wrong? You saying Peters isn’t given to racist and/or xenophobic ramblings?

             Check out the Spinoff link for some details if you’ve an element of doubt there Red.
           • Matthew Whitehead 2.1.1.1.1.3

             14 July 2017 at 12:15 am

             The Party worked with National for a hot second there on insulation funding. I think it can handle playing in the same pen as a bunch of up-jumped nationalists who actually believe in investing in our country.
   • weka 2.2

     13 July 2017 at 12:53 pm

     “Green Party won’t work with Winston First…”

     You just made that up. Here’s the actual GP position,

     We will support a truly progressive government and NZF may play a part.

     Metiria Turei’s speech at the campaign launch last weekend.

     https://www.greens.org.nz/news/speech/metiria-turei-green-party-campaign-launch-nelson-2017
     • alwyn 2.2.1

       13 July 2017 at 6:09 pm

       When was that speech actually made?
       Was the date on the header to your link
       “Metiria Turei MP on Wednesday, July 12, 2017 – 11:54” only when it was put on line?
       Incidentally do you have a link to the speech she made when she called Winston and his party racist.
       It doesn’t seem to be on the Green Party website or anywhere else that I can find.
       • weka 2.2.1.1

         13 July 2017 at 6:36 pm

         She didn’t call Peters racist in a speech, she was asked a question about his statements on Sunday’s Q and A programme.

         Her and Shaw’s speeches were given on Sunday.
       • Matthew Whitehead 2.2.1.2

         14 July 2017 at 12:17 am

         Metiria also called him a racist and said she’d still work with him if the public made her back in 2013, so no, this is a long-held and consistent point of view, not something she’s come up with under pressure.

         (also, it’s really funny that nobody in NZ First picked up on it the first time but now they’re acting like the sky is falling to play it up to their base that they’re being attacked by the mean urban liberals)
   • RRM 2.3

     13 July 2017 at 1:01 pm

     I must be imagining things then!

     Wait, no I’m not!

     http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/07/green-mp-threatens-new-election-if-labour-goes-with-nz-first.html

     Green MP Barry Coates says the party would refuse to support a Labour-NZ First Government – and even indicated the Greens would be prepared to force another election to stop it.

     In an extraordinary move, Mr Coates has said a Labour-NZ First Government would be “unacceptable” to the Greens.

     That gives Winston all of the negotiating cards, and the Greens, none.
     • weka 2.3.1

       13 July 2017 at 1:05 pm

       Do try and keep up. Shaw was on RNZ this morning making it clear that that isn’t the party line.

       See if you can find an actual quote from any GP MP saying that the Greens won’t work with NZF. Bet you can’t. Meanwhile, I can provide you with quotes where they say they will if they have to.
     • Robert Guyton 2.3.2

       13 July 2017 at 1:14 pm

       “There was this tiny ember, barely glowing but I blew on it and blew on it till it was a fiery meteor of flame – and I didn’t even use my mouth!!”
     • Bill 2.3.3

       13 July 2017 at 1:31 pm

       Not supporting a NZ Labour/NZF government could only happen if the Greens had been excluded from government.
3. marty mars 3

   13 July 2017 at 12:50 pm

   Why did he on three different occasions tell you to go back to where you came from?
   • Bill 3.1

     13 July 2017 at 1:28 pm

     Seriously, you’d have to ask him marty.
     • weka 3.1.1

       13 July 2017 at 1:56 pm

       I’m guessing that Bill got up and asked him some questions he didn’t like. Classic Peters MO.
     • adam 3.1.2

       13 July 2017 at 1:58 pm

       Sounded different, and asked a hard question. Winston does not like hard questions.
     • Bill 3.1.3

       13 July 2017 at 2:00 pm

       Well, whatever and what not, there’s no ducking away from being a xenophobic arse-wipe.

       I kinda get your question, but it’s a little bit like asking the woman who’d been walking down the street why the guy that dog-whistled, dog-whistled.
   • Bill 3.2

     13 July 2017 at 2:17 pm

     I’ve no idea what happened to all he comments that were here a few minutes ago. Just wanted to say, I wasn’t having any ‘holier than thou’ go at you marty. Essentially what Adam and Weka have said. Except that on the third occasion I was just “there” and he took it upon himself to address me directly and throw the same shit. That was about a year later.
     • marty mars 3.2.1

       13 July 2017 at 2:27 pm

       All good bill. I deleted my comments.

       [Hmm, but Weka’s and Adam’s should have simply dropped to the bottom of the comments section in that case – not disappeared along with yours. I think. Anyway…that’s something for back-end chin scratching] – Bill

       [better not to delete comments when people have already replied marty – weka]
       • McFlock 3.2.1.1

         13 July 2017 at 5:20 pm

         On the odd occasion that I am afflicted by commenter’s remorse within the ten minute edit period, I tend to just replace the content with “edit:deleted” or similar rather than deleting the actual comment.

         It provides an indication that I said something stupid, just in case there are orphaned replies of indignation.

         edit: I think I started it after I said something particularly bad that resulted in a great string of orphaned comments that threw the entire discussion thread. I think Lprent has improved the response to deletion a bit since then, though.
         • marty mars 3.2.1.1.1

           13 July 2017 at 5:26 pm

           Thanks. Sorry mods.
         • Bill 3.2.1.1.2

           13 July 2017 at 5:28 pm

           Good ploy McFlock.

           But how come you leave so many sitting? (Would you would have resisted that one? I just….couldn’t) 🙂

           Anyway, in case anyone’s getting all excited, there were no replies expressing indignation at anything marty had said.
           • McFlock 3.2.1.1.2.1

             13 July 2017 at 5:33 pm

             🙂 my stupidity and offensiveness arrive immediately. The remorse takes a little longer 🙂
4. BM 4

   13 July 2017 at 1:02 pm

   When did you arrive in NZ Bill?
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     13 July 2017 at 1:08 pm

     Why is that even a concern?
     • BM 4.1.1

       13 July 2017 at 1:11 pm

       Might explain why Bill is struggling with attitudes of some Kiwis.
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         13 July 2017 at 1:13 pm

         How so?
         • BM 4.1.1.1.1

           13 July 2017 at 1:22 pm

           Because we were a monocultural backwater prior to 1984 and didn’t really see any noticeable change until we got into the 1990’s

           A large chunk of NZ grew up not having anything to do with immigrants when I was at high school during the 1980’s there was one or two Asians and a pair of American sisters in a high school of around 900 people, not exactly a melting pot of cultures.

           This is why Peters and of late Labour gets a lot of traction with their attacks on immigrants.
           • weka 4.1.1.1.1.1

             13 July 2017 at 1:25 pm

             No, I was asking you why when Bill immigrated to NZ might explain why he is supposedly struggling with attitudes of some Kiwis.
             • BM …

               13 July 2017 at 1:29 pm

               Thought that would be fairly obvious after that post.

               Because if he arrived in the 1990’s or early 2000’s he wouldn’t have experienced life in monocultural NZ, therefore he would probably struggle with the attitudes of many Kiwis.

               Not trying to justify the behaviour and attitudes just trying to explain why they exist.
               • weka …

                 13 July 2017 at 1:48 pm

                 Still not making that much sense to me BM. My experience of growing up in a pretty conservative place was that (a) there were immigrants there and (b) it wasn’t a big deal.

                 Current issues around immigration that Peters likes to push in the direction of xenophobia and racism, are modern ones that arise out of neoliberalism.
                 • McGrath …

                   13 July 2017 at 1:59 pm

                   My experience growing up is very similar to BM’s in the 80’s. I remember there being only one Asian kid in High School among European/Maori students. This was Hamilton though, not exactly the culture capital of NZ.
                   • weka …

                     13 July 2017 at 2:02 pm

                     My objection to BM’s comments isn’t to refute that he wasn’t around immigrants when he was growing up, but that the smaller number of immigrants then underpins current immigration issues now.
                   • Bill …

                     13 July 2017 at 2:05 pm

                     Okay. You sad arsed apologists really need to fuck the fuck right off. How many non-pasty people you think you might have come across in 1980’s west coast of Scotland? I’ll tell you. Precious few.

                     So now I should be racist and my racism indulged because it’s understandable or shit?
                   • McGrath …

                     13 July 2017 at 3:01 pm

                     I can see where BM is coming from. There will be a lot of older voters who will remember the days where immigrants were not many. These voters would feel threatened seeing all these new European/Asian/ Pacific immigrants coming in droves and changing the face of “their” NZ. Therefore Winston’a rhetoric about reducing immigration would be very appealing.
                   • BM …

                     13 July 2017 at 4:11 pm

                     This, and I think that’s something the Greens need to take on board if they want to deal with NZ First.

                     If they can’t get past that then a coalition probably isn’t a great idea.
           • Sabine 4.1.1.1.1.2

             13 July 2017 at 1:31 pm

             I call bullshit on your …….. but there were no ‘migrants’ when i wuz little.

             https://teara.govt.nz/en/history-of-immigration

             you might want to read this chapter here

             The end of a ‘white New Zealand’ policy

             Action against racism, 1976
             Much as New Zealand tried to keep its immigrants white through assisted migration schemes and entry permits, such a policy was hard to enforce and even harder to defend.
             ….
             Non-racial attitudes
             By 1971 the proportion of New Zealand’s foreign-born population who were from countries outside the white British Commonwealth was 30% – double that of 20 years before. As the colour of the population changed, so did attitudes. Britain’s entry into the European Economic Community encouraged New Zealand to consider its identity as a Pacific, if not Asian, nation. Independence movements in the British colonies, civil rights crusades in the United States and a Māori cultural revival in New Zealand forced many New Zealanders to confront the racist assumptions in their past. By 1970 a writer on New Zealand immigration noted, ‘This is a world in which racist attitudes, once regarded as perfectly natural and needing no apology in an age of European domination of the non-Europeans’ world, are now looked at askance, even when they are not condemned outright.’ 1
             • BM …

               13 July 2017 at 1:36 pm

               You call bullshit on my experiences growing up in a country you weren’t even born in?

               Christ, the fucking arrogance, but I guess that’s expected with you been German.
               • weka …

                 13 July 2017 at 1:50 pm

                 And you think it’s ok to make pointy, xenophobic jokes to an immigrant in a thread about racism. Are you going to be such a dick for the rest of the day?
               • Sabine …

                 13 July 2017 at 1:57 pm

                 is that really the best you can do?

                 like seriously the very best.

                 did you run out of talking scripts? No candy? need chocolate?

                 Racist much, but dude ……. i am one of these migrants that you would never see, cause dude…I am White. 🙂

                 you really are a silly boy aren/t you?
                 • weka …

                   13 July 2017 at 2:00 pm

                   you probably don’t sound right if you get up in a public meeting and ask Peters some pointed questions though 😈
                   • Sabine …

                     13 July 2017 at 2:08 pm

                     oh sorry, but my german accent is never guessed as such. I left Germany such a long time i can’t even speak the language anymore. Much to the amusement of my siblings.

                     but one thing is for sure, i would not get that racism bullshit thrown at me as me in my gumboots, n shit would look mighty white and thus an ‘appropriate’ migrant.

                     Also sad, that all white people in NZ are the offspring of some migrants unless he is Maori – and even then, a lot of my Maori relatives have mingled with pakeha.
                   • James []

                     13 July 2017 at 3:57 pm

                     but one thing is for sure, i would not get that racism bullshit thrown at me as me in my gumboots, n shit would look mighty white and thus an ‘appropriate’ migrant.

                     So I guess you don’t have a Chinese sounding surname ?
                   • Bill …

                     13 July 2017 at 4:06 pm

                     Winston obviously doesn’t need a Chinese sounding surname nor even an Asian appearance to wallow in his shit. Thought that would be clear enough from the post.
               • mikes …

                 13 July 2017 at 7:21 pm

                 🙂 🙂 🙂

                 (Don’t mention the war…)
       • Bill 4.1.1.2

         13 July 2017 at 1:40 pm

         I don’t struggle with racism and xenophobia BM. I detest it.
         • Keepcalmcarryon 4.1.1.2.1

           13 July 2017 at 3:08 pm

           I think some people like the xenophobe tag because it instantly makes them feel good about themselves and shuts down reasoned debate on immigration problems. Not smart politics by the greens niggling Winston over this, probably just an internal branding excercise. Did the greens ( or Bill) jump up and down as much when Hone Harawira wanted to chop the heads off Chinese drug smugglers? Just asking.
           • weka 4.1.1.2.1.1

             13 July 2017 at 3:11 pm

             There was a pretty big LW commentariat backlash against HH over that.
             • Keepcalmcarryon …

               13 July 2017 at 3:38 pm

               So the greens won’t go in to coalition with Mana? Did one of the green co leaders specifically label Mr Harawira racist when speaking publicly?
               • McFlock …

                 13 July 2017 at 5:27 pm

                 Hey, who says the greens won’t go into coalition with NZ1?

                 They’ll just be needing winston to back off from the racist policies as part of the coalition compromise, just as Hone would need to back off being a racist dick and the capital punishment thing.
           • Bill 4.1.1.2.1.2

             13 July 2017 at 3:16 pm

             Do a simple site search and you’ll see what I said about Hone’s drug ‘solution’.

             “Nice” to see yet another person expressing comfort with xenophobia and racism though and dismissing any political challenge to it as a mere ‘branding exercise’.
             • Keepcalmcarryon …

               13 July 2017 at 3:32 pm

               Use a word too often and out of context and it loses its power, Bill.
               • Bill …

                 13 July 2017 at 4:04 pm

                 Sure. Calling shit for what it is, is all about power. Care to explain this ‘out of context’ that I’m missing?
                 • Keepcalmcarryon …

                   13 July 2017 at 4:13 pm

                   As just your latest example, you accuse me above of expressing ” comfort with xenophobia and racism” by explaining Turei’s outburst as probably internal branding. Whether or not it was, I actually offered no opinion on the content of her outburst.
                   • Bill …

                     13 July 2017 at 4:18 pm

                     🙄 So the existence of racism gets relegated below “concern” about an “outburst”.

                     I can see signs of a second hole opening up beneath your feet. But hey…
                   • Keepcalmcarryon []

                     13 July 2017 at 4:58 pm

                     Let’s discuss the politics of the situation instead of personalizing it.
5. Draco T Bastard 5

   13 July 2017 at 1:05 pm

   Better than that, msm seems to have zeroed in on Winston Peters’ claim that there will be “consequences”. You get that? No condemnation of xenophobia or whatever – just a certain salivation at the prospect of juicy consequences.

   The MSM don’t want a Labour led government and are so cheer-leading for NZF/National one and hoping that no one will notice that NZFirts policies are pretty much the exact opposite to National’s and match quite closely to Labour’s.

   But my question to New Zealand (if I can anthropomorphise a country for a second) is what the hell is going on in your head when your first inclination is to brush off charges of racism as something “impolite” or “just not cricket”;

   Is it the people who are doing that or just the RWNJs in the MSM that we hear from so much?
6. greywarshark 6

   13 July 2017 at 1:11 pm

   I was listening to Shane Jones this morning and he reminded me of Winston Peters, likes the throwaway line that makes him look like a smartarse. Which party is Shane in at the present?
   http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201850922/shane-jones-has-doubts-on-iwirail-plans

   transport politics
   8:20 am today
   Shane Jones has doubts on IwiRail plans
   From Morning Report, 8:20 am today
   Listen duration 4′ :42″

   The New Zealand First candidate, Shane Jones, says the Maori Party policy to resurrect regional rail is unrealistic and farcical.
7. Sabine 7

   13 July 2017 at 1:18 pm

   they really don’t want the greens to go into a coalition with labour.

   but i use US terms here, its okay if a “republican”/NZ First/Conservative/National/Act’ does, but it is never ok if the ‘left’ does it. The left has to be polite, always, cause left and shit.

   fuckem.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.1

     13 July 2017 at 1:36 pm

     +111
8. gsays 8

   13 July 2017 at 4:01 pm

   My nana said “if you can’t say anything nice don’t say anything at all”.

   My response to Metiria Turei’s comments was poor timing as opposed to the message.
   I get it was a rallying cry, but given both of Winston and Labour’s past actions (going into coalition with national after campaigning on vote for me to get rid of ’em and Labour’s cold shoulder of greens last time round) it seemed I’ll advised.
   • Matthew Whitehead 8.1

     14 July 2017 at 12:38 am

     That’s not good enough for our leaders, Gsays. Sometimes you have to call someone out when their rhetoric is a problem and damaging the nation’s values, and honestly, Peters reached that point well before 2013 when Meyt first publicly called his policies and rhetoric racist.

     It is absolutely a social fallacy that failing to confront a problem makes it better. I know as someone who routinely struggles not to commit it. It is better to be honest about a difference in values and come to a place where you can work together. I also think a bit of rhetorical distance between the Greens and NZ First is great for everyone involved, so long as the hurt feelings can be smoothed over, as NZ First will get more votes from conservatives thinking they’re under attack, and the Greens will get more votes for smacking down Winston a little with a well-justified attack. Besides, telling someone they’re saying or doing something isn’t “not being nice.” It’s the equivalent of saying “no, you can’t keep punching people, it’s wrong.”

     And besides, the three parties can absolutely get to a place where the three can agree. It actually does exist, the exchange would go something like this:

     Greens: “Yes, OK, there need to be reasonable limits on migration so that we don’t exceed the country’s carrying capacity. Just don’t make net migration 1% of population or we’ll look stupid.”
     NZ First: “Yes, I suppose a higher figure than that could still suit our nationalist agenda, only we need to make it strictly in jobs kiwis can’t already do.”
     Greens: “Seems pretty fair to people already here, whether they’re born here or earlier immigrants. Also, we want to look after them when they’re here, make applying a bit easier and faster, and they can’t all be white.”
     NZ First: “Yes they can.”
     Labour: “Come on, Winston. You’re not even white yourself.”
     NZ First: “We agree if you never remind the alt-right of that fact in public.”

     😉
     • gsays 8.1.1

       14 July 2017 at 1:05 am

       Yep, fair call I suppose.
       I am always asking leaders to lead, not follow polling or being afraid of scaring the horses.

       Still that time, no matter how brief, could be spent examining the common ground.
       • Matthew Whitehead 8.1.1.1

         14 July 2017 at 10:34 am

         Trust me, they’re doing that too, it’s just that you don’t see them working together in private. This is why Martin had a big tirade about all their months working together. (I don’t know why she’s upset, she seems to be the only one in the party with a head on her shoulders, even if it is a conservative one, and she should be the first to see that they have some work to do around changing their rhetoric so that people actually believe them when they protest that they’re not trying to be racist)
     • Pat 8.1.2

       14 July 2017 at 6:47 am

       “I also think a bit of rhetorical distance between the Greens and NZ First is great for everyone involved, so long as the hurt feelings can be smoothed over, as NZ First will get more votes from conservatives thinking they’re under attack, and the Greens will get more votes for smacking down Winston a little with a well-justified attack.”

       or they could both be dismissed as self serving and disinterested in the needs of the electorate and reduce their potential support….hello missing 1.5 million.
       • Matthew Whitehead 8.1.2.1

         14 July 2017 at 10:29 am

         Possibly. I hope not, as the Greens really exist to do nothing but support the needs of the electorate, and they’re quite open to reversing course if they get public feedback. If you still feel that way about them, I’d strongly suggest writing a letter to Meyt. (She reads every single thing I send her, so I try not to take up her time usually <..>)

         Now, Winston, I completely agree with you about.
       • Bill 8.1.2.2

         14 July 2017 at 10:34 am

         Calling out xenophobia and racism is never about timing and never a bad thing and (I fail to see how) ever self serving.
         • Pat 8.1.2.2.1

           14 July 2017 at 3:57 pm

           that would depend upon the motivation
           • Matthew Whitehead 8.1.2.2.1.1

             15 July 2017 at 12:45 pm

             Why?

             Of what actual relevance is someone’s motivation so long as they walk the walk?

             I believe that the Greens are motivated to do this for the right reason, but even if you don’t, it’s enough that this is an opinion they have put out there publicly and consistently for several years now.
9. Sabine 9

   13 July 2017 at 4:05 pm

   @ James
   but one thing is for sure, i would not get that racism bullshit thrown at me as me in my gumboots, n shit would look mighty white and thus an ‘appropriate’ migrant.

   So I guess you don’t have a Chinese sounding surname ?

   worse, my name is unpronounceable. I am from and area we jokingly call bavarian kongo (Schwarz Bayern – and yes that is now a days considered racist) and we speak in vowels only. So the Chinese have something to me, their surnames you can pronounce.

   and as for your dig, pointing out that in a sales sheet most sales seem to be going to one ethnic group rather then a mixture of various group of people is called statistics. Like you know Chinese buyers, Maori buyers, Pacific Islander buyers and so on. So yeah, i am forever grateful that Phil Twyford went there and pointed out what has been said for a long time, namely that Auckland is being bought not by New Zealanders of every stripe and color, but by a very distinguished group of people from overseas, and now we have a registry that keeps track of real estate transaction to foreigners that. Good ey?
   That way, racists can look to statistics. A bit like with BM who can’t see the migrants that look like him but only sees the migrants that don’t look like him.
   • Psycho Milt 9.1

     13 July 2017 at 8:51 pm

     …worse, my name is unpronounceable. I am from and area we jokingly call bavarian kongo (Schwarz Bayern – and yes that is now a days considered racist) …

     When I was working in Hamburg in the mid-90s I asked one of my colleagues about a hated manager’s incomprehensible (to me) sueddeutsche accent. “Is he Austrian or something?” I asked “Oh, it’s even worse than that,” said the Hamburger – “he’s from Bavaria.”
     • Sabine 9.1.1

       13 July 2017 at 8:53 pm

       hahahah

       yep, s’true. we’s not german, we’s bavarian. that’s what people always get wrong 🙂
10. Wayne 10

    13 July 2017 at 4:48 pm

    Bill,

    Comparing Winston Peter to apartheid South Africa, as you impliedly do in the “teaser” to this item has got to be one of the stupidest things you have done.

    Whatever you might say about Winston, that is a truly ridiculous comparison.

    It just goes to show how much you are divorced from mainstream politics in New Zealand when you think it reasonable to make such an allegation.

    Though no doubt in your world New Zealand is essentially a racist country, up there with the worst of them.
    • Bill 10.1

      13 July 2017 at 5:39 pm

      No. I made comparisons in terms of media reactions/priorities. I made no comparison in relation to Winston Peters at all. Pretty shoddy straw thingee there Wayne.

      NZ essentially racist and up there with the worst of them?

      I wouldn’t say that. As I’ve said before on more than one occasion though, it’s the most racist country I’ve experienced.

      Now, any chance you might want to engage with the post’s main topic?
      • Red 10.1.1

        13 July 2017 at 5:53 pm

        You obviously hang around with the wrong people if nz is the most racist country you have experienced or not travelled widely Your statement is outlandish but hey your free to believe it but belief does not make it so Wayne is spot on
        • Bill 10.1.1.1

          13 July 2017 at 6:03 pm

          It’s my experience Red. Nothing outlandish about it. Maybe you’ve just cocooned yourself? Are otherwise just blind to it? Something else?

          Whatever, you’re previous comment suggesting it’s only the Greens “opinion” that Winston is racist/xenophobic suggests you’re not exactly the ‘go to’ person for understanding or recognising that shit.
          • Matthew Whitehead 10.1.1.1.1

            14 July 2017 at 12:54 am

            OK, I’ll bite. New Zealand has some fair problems but it’s actually one of the less racist countries I’ve been to. That’s not to say that racism still isn’t bloody everywhere here, and it’s not exactly easy being visibly brown in any shade, especially in Christchurch, but I never felt like Kiwi racism had the same institutional power as in the UK, or USA, and anti-immigrant rhetoric isn’t as powerful or acceptable here as it was in Germany. And don’t get me started on Aussie, which has a bit of all the worst of all three of them, even if it doesn’t add up to anything quite as bad as the unhealthiest parts of the US.

            (It was shocking visiting the monuments when I was in DC, and seeing just how white the crowds were at every monument but the new one to Martin Luther King, where me and my father were literally the only white people. Anything to do with race, whether it was about african-americans, native americans, or latin americans, was conspicuously absent of local white people, it was all tourists)

            The only other country I’ve felt pretty comfortable in in that regard is Samoa, although it was weird being the odd one out there for a change, it’s a good experience for white people to have at least once, IMO. White people weren’t even the second-most common group there, that was Chinese Samoans.

            Now, I don’t agree with Wayne that you’ve “gone too far” with a South African image. We all know they had, and to a degree still have, some big problems with race, but at least they’re largely trying to tackle them in a grown-up fashion, and in our case too, are taking steps to make reconciliation real.

            If anyone has a right to be upset about that juxtaposition of Winston and South Africa, (which, again, is not as unreasonable as Wayne makes it sound) it’s South Africa, IMO. At least they apologized for their racism.
11. Ad 11

    13 July 2017 at 5:01 pm

    Here’s the NZFirst immigration policy:
    http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/immigration

    New Zealand First will:
    • Make sure that Kiwi workers are at the front of the job queue.

    • Ensure that immigration policy is based on New Zealand’s interests and the main focus is on meeting critical skills gaps.

    • Ensure family reunion members are strictly controlled and capped and there is fairness across all nationalities.

    • Ensure that there is effective labour market testing to ensure New Zealanders have first call on New Zealand jobs.

    • Introduce a cap on the number of older immigrants because of the impact on health and other services.

    • Make sure effective measures are put in place to stop the exploitation of migrant workers with respect to wages, safety and work conditions. In Christchurch and elsewhere there is evidence of exploitation of migrant workers.

    • Develop strategies to encourage the regional dispersion of immigration to places other than Auckland. Auckland’s infrastructure is overloaded.

    • Remove the ability to purchase a pre-paid English lesson voucher to bypass the minimum English entry requirements.

    It’s the NZFirst campaign conference this weekend.
    • McFlock 11.1

      13 July 2017 at 5:43 pm

      I’ve got quibbles with one or two of those points, but the main problem is how they will combine with the rhetoric that’s not in the manifesto.

      Things like Bill being told “go back where you came from” (actually, I might have been there for one of them if it was on campus a few elections ago. Not sure), but alongside Peters’ comments, Prosser’s comments, and a few others.

      Xenophobia seems to be a solid perspective well entrenched in the hearts of a few of NZ1 caucus.
    • Bill 11.2

      13 July 2017 at 5:43 pm

      Yup. Read that previously. Nothing overtly racist or xenophobic about any of that. I’d even go so far as to say that it’s less discriminatory than NZ Labour’s immigration policy on paper.

      But as Metiria pointed out (and the post is also clear on this) it’s about the rhetoric that Winston Peters uses.
      • Ad 11.2.1

        13 July 2017 at 7:44 pm

        Well, let’s go through those apparent racist claims assembled by The Spinoff:

        Monday, 15 May 2000,
        Re dogs: he was complaining about the live export of dogs to be eaten.
        He’s in good company with the Greens complaining about live exports.

        26 April 2005
        “At this rate, it won’t take long for New Zealand to be unrecognizable.”
        We’re in mid 2017. Are we still recognizable? After only 12 years?

        27 May 2005
        … creation of an “undesirables” category to ensure that those from “dangerous and unethical regimes are red-flagged before they get here”.
        Why is this a bad idea? The biggest meth seizures we have had, have been from new migrants. Exception being the big one that washed ashore for the gangs north of Kaitaia.

        May 2012
        “Drive down [Dominion Road] someday – once you get past the Eden Park turnoff , keep going and you tell me – what is going on here?”
        Is this the best we can get? Complaining about too many restaurants?

        I think the left can’t cope with hearing about race, unless it comes from the right kind of Maori. Hone Harawira. Now there’s a guy who is a stone cold racist. But if it comes from a different kind of Maori, Winston Peters, we’re straight to clutching our pearls.

        If Winston does get anywhere near to Don Brash’s Orewa speech of 2008, that will be worth re-evaluating. He hasn’t come close. There’s no “ecc sanguis non in arena sed per vias fluebat”, or “river of blood” phrasing. We are a long, long way from Queensland politics, let alone English or U.S. politics. I think where’re just a bit too squeamish.

        Winston is simply stating a natural consequence of the globalization that you fear Bill: accelerated cultural change.

        The left are fine to talk about all the other kinds of negative consequences of globalization: capital flight, environmental degradation, predatory corporations, labour mobility. But Marx was weak on the consequences of all of that upon cultures. Winston is right to name it.
12. Janet 12

    13 July 2017 at 6:25 pm

    National must GO! But unless Labour, Values and NZF start to solidly team up as a responsible, inspiring and workable coalition soon I will be looking elsewhere to place my vote. . TOP
    • weka 12.1

      13 July 2017 at 6:34 pm

      voting TOP is unlikely to change the government. Like NZF, TOP could choose National instead of L/G. It’s also doubtful that they will get 5%, which means your vote that would otherwise have helped change the govt would be wasted.

      Labour and the Greens are working well together.
      • Matthew Whitehead 12.1.1

        14 July 2017 at 12:57 am

        Didn’t TOP say they were going to abstain on C&S and sit on the cross-benches?
    • adam 12.2

      13 July 2017 at 9:00 pm

      TOP is a drunk punch liberal experience.
13. Chris 13

    13 July 2017 at 6:59 pm

    The MOU was an incredibly stupid error by the Greens.

    They have tied themselves to a very shaky ship in Labour.

    And the last couple of days of mutual ego waving from both Metiria and Winston won’t exactly fill the voters with confidence that putting this mix in won’t be very very ugly.

    I also question Little’s staying out of it and not standing up and making himself look like a leader by publicly telling them to pull their heads in.

    It looks weak
    • weka 13.1

      13 July 2017 at 7:49 pm

      Little isn’t the boss of the Greens or NZF though. It’s not really any of his business.

      The MoU tells voters that there is a progressive coalition in waiting. Without it, there would be little for swing voters to trust. How does this harm the Greens when there are literally no other government options than being with Labour?
      • Chris 13.1.1

        13 July 2017 at 8:09 pm

        He is supposed to be the boss if Labour becomes PM

        It harms them because when it comes to negotiations after the election, any strong arming the Greens do to make Labour tweak policy more in line with theirs carries zero backing it up.

        Look at Winston

        He can demand what ever he wants and he can still go with whoever gives it to him
        • weka 13.1.1.1

          13 July 2017 at 8:23 pm

          “He is supposed to be the boss if Labour becomes PM”

          Sure, but the MoU established that Labour and the Greens were still separate parties not beholden to each other. And in a L/G govt there would be a new agreement laying out the boundaries that all parties would be expected to abide by. We don’t have that yet.

          It harms them because when it comes to negotiations after the election, any strong arming the Greens do to make Labour tweak policy more in line with theirs carries zero backing it up.

          Look at Winston

          He can demand what ever he wants and he can still go with whoever gives it to him
          

          Peters can do that because he’s centrist. You can’t do that from left of Labour. Even if the Greens were into the whole leverage thing in the way you imply (and I don’t think they are), what possible ‘leverage’ is there from their position? You haven’t actually said.

          Better that they do what they have done and say to the electorate, if you want a truly progressive govt then vote for us.
          • Chris 13.1.1.1.1

            13 July 2017 at 9:22 pm

            A progressive govt that calls each other names and threatens each other with ramifications

            Not a good look
            • weka 13.1.1.1.1.1

              13 July 2017 at 10:22 pm

              Labour and the Greens aren’t calling each other names.
        • Psycho Milt 13.1.1.2

          13 July 2017 at 10:07 pm

          He is supposed to be the boss if Labour becomes PM

          That’s some right-wing thinking right there. There’s always a boss. Memorandums of Understanding are just a way for the weaker party to live with having a boss, rather than being an actual Memorandum of Understanding. Fortunately, the participants in this MoU aren’t right-wingers.
    • Ross 13.2

      13 July 2017 at 8:14 pm

      On the contrary, politicians bickering in public is so tacky. By the way, have you heard whether Todd Barclay has decided to help police with their enquiries?
      • Chris 13.2.1

        13 July 2017 at 9:11 pm

        I know it’s tacky.

        In fact it’s worse than tacky. It’s an election killer if you want to be seen as able to create a stable govt.

        Which is why Metiria needs to pull her head in

        No idea about Barclay. He’s an idiot who has gone.

        I would guess we will find out at the end of the inquiry
        • Ross 13.2.1.1

          14 July 2017 at 7:02 am

          Chris,

          Metiria is reminding voters that the Greens have some principles, even if WInston doesn’t. Having said that, I’m not sure it will have much effect.

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